As of now, Joshua's legacy is basically Floyd Patterson

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by catchwtboxing, Aug 25, 2022.


  1. Marcus S.

    Marcus S. Member Full Member

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    I think AJ will be remembered as a very good fighter in his era, but not as someone who is worthy of going to Canastota. Besides the Wlad win, he doesn't have many "OH MY GOD!" wins on his resume.
     
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  2. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    "Difference AJ attempted to get Ortiz, Wilder and Fury to fight mutiple times"

    This is a funny one. Team Ortiz, Wilder and Fury weren't interested in fighting AJ but AJ subsequently got his lunch money taken by Andy Ruiz and Usyk x2. AJ should have fought undefeated Cuban (like Savon) southpaw (like Nistor, Cammarelle, Usyk) front foot counterpuncher (like Ruiz) Ortiz in 2017, instead they went for orthodox light punching jabber Pulev and fought orthodox light punching 3 loss Takam instead. Very low risk fights that could still pack a domestic stadium.

    Team AJ should have offered team Wilder 50-50 and equal terms for the biggest fight in boxing by far at the time and all of the belts, instead Hearn messed around talking about "70-30, one-way rematch clause, unilateral home advantage, A-side/B-side", thinking time was on their side because Wilder is 4 years older. Then Hearn got his comeuppance as AJ was pancaked by the Mexican Butterbean in the most humiliating defeat in boxing history, no talk of fighting in America since.

    "People say Wlad was inactive like he was retired"

    Wlad was 41, 17 months out of the ring, winless in 2 years, KO-less in 2.5 years, dethroned, in Britain as the B-side and still took AJ life and death as a clear underdog in his final career fight. Very good win yes but the objective context is also important.
     
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  3. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    There are also strong parallels between AJ and Mike Tyson (partial credit to @TipNom)

    AJ and Tyson were undefeated champions knocking almost everyone out.

    Both KO'd the aging ATG former lineal champion who'd been dethroned by someone else on points and was coming off an extended layoff.

    Both suffered huge upset defeats to one hit wonders who lost the belts in their first defences after not preparing properly and blowing up 15 lbs.

    They came back and became champions again but didn't seem to be the same fighters they once were.

    They then lost to ATG cruiserweights in fights they were expected to win, and lost the immediate rematches.

    Both were overhyped and exposed as on-top fighters who lacked mental fortitude in the tough moments.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2022
  4. Mitch87

    Mitch87 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Why in world would Wilder get 50%? That's like Callum Smith, Plant BJS demanding 50% off Caenlo.

    Wilder turned mutiple offers that were all over double his career high purse at the time and chance to be undisputed Champion but Wilders team had no confidence in winning the fight and never have done. Turning down $120m deal was utterly insane if Haymon had a even little bit of confidence e in his man Wilder causing the big upset. Instead Wilder made no where near that .only and decided to as usual go for cherry pick opponent but made a cherry pick gone wrong in unfit Fury who hadn't beaten anyone of note in 3 years.

    AJ fighting a better a more proven Pulev who was his mandatory instead one notable fight guy in Ortiz, I've got no issue with that. Takam stepped in as Hearn had agreement in place with Takam to step in if Pulev pulled out (bearing in mind Takam is better boxer than anyone Ortiz has beaten.

    AJ called Ortiz 's bluff when Ortiz public said he would step in as Millers replacement. Ortiz turned it down, which really made him look foolish. Ortiz since has done anything of note unless you call going life and death with Charles Martin (not even amongst AJ top 7 opponents he has beaten) being dropped mutiole times including from a jab.

    Wlad had only lost one fight in over 10 years. Been in two training camps during "inactive period" due Fury pulling out and Wilder came in against AJ in great shape the lightest he had been in 7 years. This is the same Wlad that Wilder own manager Shelley Winkel stated that Wilder wasn't reader and is baby in comparison to Wlad despite Wilder having 30 fights and being a world champion.
     
  5. Perkin Warbeck

    Perkin Warbeck Boxing aficionado Full Member

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    Unlike Patterson, Joshua was never the linear or Ring heavyweight champion. He's been a top contender.

    Patterson clearly ranks higher than Joshua on the all-time lists right now.

    But Joshua is just age 32 and that's young for a heavyweight at this time, if he becomes more active as he said he wants to, he could surpass Patterson by the end of his career.
     
  6. ShortRound

    ShortRound Active Member banned Full Member

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    "Why in world would Wilder get 50%? That's like Callum Smith, Plant BJS demanding 50% off Caenlo."

    Except Joshua-Wilder was the biggest fight in boxing at the time, not some average belt holder fight like Martin or Parker. Hearn and AJ needed Wilder because he was the long-reigning American KO artist champion with the final piece of the puzzle. Look up the concept of "leverage". When you play A-side/B-side games these big heavyweight fights often don't get made.

    The consequence of this was AJ getting battered and quitting against Andy Ruiz rather than fighting Wilder for all the belts. Oh dear.

    "AJ fighting a better a more proven Pulev who was his mandatory instead one notable fight guy in Ortiz, I've got no issue with that."

    Of course you don't because you're happy with AJ fighting low risk, light punching jabbers who don't have any chance. Look what Wlad did to Pulev when Pulev was active, undefeated and in or around his prime: iced him out cold with a quarter of the punches AJ needed to force a late stoppage. Takam drew with Perez, ducked Ortiz and got destroyed by Joyce in Britain, whereas Jennings beat Perez, was coming off a 9-3 loss to P4P No.2 lineal champ Wlad when Ortiz destroyed him and went on to lose a competitive fight over 12 to Joyce in Britain.

    "Ortiz turned it down, which really made him look foolish"

    AJ should have fought Ortiz in 2017 when he was signed with Matchroom and undefeated, not when he was with PBC, being lined up for another Wilder defence and had already been KO'd by Wilder 15 or so months prior.

    Compare Ortiz's performances against domestic/Euro level opposition to Whyte, Parker, Pulev and Takam's against the same opponents. Ortiz exhibits vastly superior power and skill to these top AJ hypejob opponents. Whyte is the best of that list and look what Fury did to him: toyed with him for 6 rounds and iced him with one punch. This manufactured narrative of AJ's "amazing resume" is dead.

    "This is the same Wlad that Wilder own manager Shelley Winkel stated that Wilder wasn't reader"

    So the January 2015 38 year old Wlad who had just iced Pulev in Germany, who was active with 17 consecutive defences, was the same Wlad as the 41 year old Wlad who fought AJ in Britain in April 2017 in his final career fight, who had been dethroned in his previous fight, was out of the ring for 17 months, winless in 2 years and KO-less in 2.5 years. I don't think that's very credible. That's AJ's best win by far and he went life and death at home.
     
  7. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    AJ is better than Patterson ever was....also a bigger puncher
     
  8. Joeywill

    Joeywill Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Floyd Patterson is kind of overrated to me. Right place at the right time. Yes Joshua is greater than him.