Who would you think would win, in a 15 rd fight, both at their featherweight primes,Henry Armstrong or Willie Pep. A perputual machine versus the unhittable object ! What say you ?
hank based on styles. Its hard for me to imagine henry being ever overmatched at featherweight, he must have been terrifying at that level
If you couldn't impose yourself physically on Hank at some point, particularly with some body work, he could run you right into the ground at 126. He shellacked master boxer Ross, who only took two rounds. He'd be burrowing into Pep's body from the get go. Henry might easily own Archie Moore's record of knockout wins if he'd been a career long featherweight, and likely gets to 30 title defenses decades before anybody else even sniffs that total. Relentless work rate wasn't the only threat Armstrong posed. His power was a one punch menace at 126. Willie would somehow have to dance and dodge for 15 rounds against a genetic freak whose heart was discovered at autopsy to be a full one third larger than the average human ticker. Here, I will come right out and say it. If Henry Armstrong remains a career long featherweight, then Angott does not inflict the first defeat on Pep's record, nor does Saddler inflict the first stoppage loss on Willie's dossier. Pep was one of the biggest beneficiaries of Hank's decision to permanently abandon 126. Looking at that cast of Armstrong's tiny fist in Canastota, I'm convinced this was truly his natural weight.
Pep's skills win the dat, I think Armstrong would be a tad drained at 126, because he had about 13fights at that weight limit. Pep better not be too lazy in training for this 1 though because he's going to have to work hard
What evidence have you of weight drain? I'm asking because Armstrong did the weight over a period of about 6 years, intermittently, and i never read of any weight troubles at all. He would later struggle to make 140, but that was 140. He also had a tendency to come in under.
Because most of those fights were with him weighin 132 while in shape, he rarely fought at the 126 limit. Maybe that isn't enough evidence and many fighters around that time had over the weight fights and maybe he was fine at the weight but losing 6lbs for a same day weigh in will weanken him imo I think he was always destined to be a LW in that era
Sarron also figured Armstrong would be weight drained, but Henry came in at 124 and had no issues, despite Pete's intentions to try exploiting the expected weakness. He beat Ross, Garcia and Arizmendi in WW Title fights while weighing under the lightweight limit (and came in at or below 135 for no less than five other defenses at 147), despite swilling beer in gallons during training to try to gain weight. There's not a great deal in his career to suggest that making 126 would have ever been too much of an issue for him.
He always would have moved up. He had to starve to make Tendler. But I don't think he was weight-drained at 126. He maybe had to be ultra-disciplined to get there, but so what? Most fighters are. In fact make that nearly all. I guess i'd agree that he was likely to be a tiny bit better above, but weight-drained is pushing it a bit. For the record, I think he beats Pep close but clear. I have similar feelings on this one to Duran-Whitaker.
Fair point but beating Sarron alone doesn't mean he wasn't drained, fighters often win when being drained, albeit not massively drained. My general point is he wouldn't be quite as strong at FW as he was in LW/WW fights and Pep is a step up in class P4P
It's interesting speculation. For a long time, it was commonly supposed that Greb had outgrown 160, but he was able to compete within that division until the end of his career, and many witnesses believed he won his final two bouts with Flowers. Hank made weight for Sarron by a margin of two pounds, more than might typically be expected for somebody struggling to get under a lower limit. Walker was underweight at 144 when Latzo usurped his WW Title. That was actually Mickey's lowest weight for any WW Title bout, and he paid for it. Like Greb though, he never outgrew 160. Again, Sarron was an extremely tough little Syrian (as Time Magazine described him), and it took a very special fighter to knock him out the way Hank did in six, not something which might be expected of an excessively weight drained challenger. (I suppose it could be asserted that most competitors who have to lose weight to make a limit could be said to be drained, with the exception of freaks like Fitz and Chandler (who always seemed able to make weight by taking a quick dump and ****, something Joltin' Jeff liked to brag about).