B. Leonard or Willie Pep?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JAB5239, May 16, 2010.

  1. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Angott was not in his prime then either.

    On top of that, Joyce's wins over Williams were sandwiched between decisive stoppage losses to Bob Montgomery (who an improved Williams crushingly KO'd a few years later) and the same past-prime Angott, who seldom if ever stopped world class fighters. Williams was already a good fighter, but still had a ways to go before distinguishing himself as an ATG.

    Dave Shade, who was in line for a title shot at that time and was rated as one of the leading WWs and MWs into the early '30s.
     
  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Dave Shade does not compare to Sammy Angott in my opinion. I will not agree on that.
     
  3. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why not? You just compared Willie Joyce to Jack Britton, after all.
     
  4. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    I think it is a pretty fair comparison. I rate Willy around top 30-35 lightweight all time. I feel Britton is around top 20-25. Britton is slightly ahead, but it's not far fetched to think Willie can fight in the same class as Britton.
     
  5. My2Sense

    My2Sense Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you think a good career contender and an ATG champion/HOFer is somehow a "fair comparison" then there's no reason you can't think Shade and Angott (particularly a faded Angott) are comparable.
     
  6. burt bienstock

    burt bienstock Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    For what it's worth-
    I saw all the lightweights of the golden 1940s, so I know first hand of their merits...I saw Beau Jack/Williams Philly
    Beau Jack/Bob Montgomery MSG
    Henry Armstrong/ Ray Robinson MSG
    Willie Joyce/Allie Stolz MSG
    Willie Pep/ Allie Stolz MSG
    and so many other lightweights of the 1940s
    It is true that Willie Joyce beat Ike Williams more than once,but Willie Joyce lost to Allie Stolz and TWICE to the great boxer Tippy Larkin, who would have been the best of them except for a GLASS JAW...Tippy Larkin also easily whipped Billy Graham in 1947 MSG
    ,so great a boxer was Larkin that he easily beat the two best pure boxers in Willie Joyce and Billy Graham, because they did not hit hard enough to ko Larkin...
    Larkin virtually never was outboxed in his career, but he was flattened by Beau Jack MSG, Al Davis, Lew Jenkins ,all punchers,were they...
    Boxing is about styles, and the and Larkin, Allie Stolz , who beat Willie Joyce , would have certainly been kod by Ike Williams,who lost to Willie Joyce...
    I think that the most impressive win for Willie Pep was in 1944[before Pep's plane accident], when he decisioned Willie Joyce, a lightweight..Pep's best win, I believe...
    Pep was NEVER thought as a opponent of Ike Williams in those days,NEVER...Ike hit just too darn hard for the smaller Pep....Great, great lightweights they were in the 1940s..
    I was fortunate to have seen them all, methinkjs......