I was responding the the comment Holmes jab can be written off and won't play a part in the fight. This is simply utter nonsense of the highest order. Holmes jab will play a part, and how big a part of course will be decided by how well The Rock deals with it over the long haul. I would agree Rocky deals with a jab quite well, but Holmes is the best and will test him more so than ever before. I'm not silly enough to think Holmes could dominate a great fighter and swarmer such as Marciano on the strength of his jab, both will indeed have their moments as will Holmes jab. The one who can impose his style on the other more so than vice versa will win. It's a close call. I still lean toward the Holmes footwork, jab and uppercut taking him to a hard fought but clearcut decision with some peril on the way, but have no prob with others leaning toward Marciano in a tough battle. I'd install Holmes a 7-5 fave.
very fustrating and painfull fight for marciano. Holmes was too tall, too fast, and too skillfull for rock to deal with. Holmes would keep him on the end of his jab and punish him all night long. I don't see a clean knockout, but i see the ref stopping the fight inside of 10 because of cuts. Holmes was an expert at using his reach and would consistently thwart rocks attempts to get inside. He'd bust rock up and cut him to shreds. Not much of a contest IMO.
Thats whats what they all said about Marciano in regards to Walcott, Charles, and Moore, and in the end, Marciano battle them into defeat. Marciano has a great chance in beating Holmes. I have the fight as a pick em, and make no one the underdog.
I think this would be a superb ATG matchup. A brilliant fight to see. One of the greatest swarmers vs one of the greatest boxers. (I would also have liked to see prime Frazier vs prime Holmes. They did spar, of course.) Rocky and Larry are both tough and willing to go through hell to win. It could of course go either way, but it would definitely be hotly contested. I favour Rocky against just about any boxer type fighter, so he is my pick here; but would not be at all surprised at Larry winning a hard fought contest. One thing is for sure, win or lose, if Larry wouldn't be joking about jockstraps at the end of it! Both fighters would have a very real respect for each other.
My last line was meant to reinforce your view of his jab... and how silly some people (not you) are when they ignore it entirely.
For sure mate, for sure. There's numerous critical nuances, Holmes exact effectiveness with the jab, how each takes the others best blows. Some too are forgetting Holmes get down and dirty when they do actually trade blows, Holmes is the bigger man and is quite decent exchanging. Some seem to think it a given Rocky owns Holmes when they trade, but that too might be more competitive than some think. It's a great match.
What made Holmes special behind the jab, wasn't just the technique and effectiveness, he was extremely busy with it. Many fighters have great jabs, De La Hoya for example, but never use it enough. Holmes' performance against Rodriquez isn't a fight that springs to mind when looking back over his career. But his jab was rather lethal over the 12 rounds. Infact, it was his bread and butter punch throughout the fight. Some fans may find it a boring fight on the eye, not me. Agreed. Holmes had the handspeed to trade with Marciano and outscore him. But standing in there for too long aint a wise idea. He'd simply be giving Marciano what he wanted, a target to get off on. Employing swift lateral movement would be Holmes key to success, with the jab thrown in as a point scorer.
I will say that Holmes never faced a swarmer of Marciano's ilk in his prime. His success rate in closing the distance would be compelling to see. Holmes avaded a Shavers easy but he was more a plodder and didn't cut off the ring and build pressure like a Marciano.
He could move like Ali when he wanted to, or needed to, but thats the thing, he didn't always want or need to do that. Ali needed to because he wasn't good at slugging it out. Larry could slug it out. He was a brilliant boxer.
The exchanges would be very good, heated, and last a while. One thing that helped Marciano and Holmes prevail in exchanges were how they didn't care if they got nailed, they kept swinging, and could keep it up for a while. The 13th round of Holmes-Cooney started out as an exchange and Holmes came out on top. Although Cooney was a beaten man and knew, he still wasn't easy to exchanges with. I see Marciano getting the better of Holmes in the exchanges, but Holmes was sneaky with his uppercuts and over hand rights/crosses. He buckled Berbicks knees with a right. And the uppercut he nailed Weaver with came from hell, and it was extremely sneaky, undetected until impact. IMO Holmes could land that same uppercut, but it wouldn't hurt The Rock as bad as it did Weaver. IMO it would drop him, but I'm not so sure it would keep him hurt very long. Marciano, much like Holmes or vice versa, both were hard to hurt, and recovered very fast. It still amazes me that after the right Shavers nailed Holmes with in the 7th of their 2nd fight, that Holmes came out fighting like he did in the first the very next round.
You may well be right. My main concearn as Holmses trainer would be whether he could adapt to fight going backwards. Milling on the retreat as Tom Cribb would call it.
I dont think Holmes would be able to stay on his bike long enough to avoid Rocky power, I see this as a very exciting fight but with Rocky setting the pace with some decent exchanges and Holmes going at it with him. I think the biggest factor would be Rockys Right hand (one of the best ever) and unorthodox style and stamina. I can see the fight going into the later rounds ( both men at there best ) but with Rocky wearing Holmes down with a 2 fisted attack body and head and stopping Holmes around the 12th