Bernard Hopkins and steroids

I was surprised by the poll results.

In this era, why wouldn't you assume that any athlete who is doing things nobody has done before is juicing?

Especially in boxing, where it's pretty easy to get away with PED use and most fighters above a certain level are probably on PEDs. Certainly, some of B-Hops opponents.

I'd need some particular reason to think he wouldn't do it. What I know about him is that he goes to extraordinary lengths to get the most out of his body. He's out for himself and his family without caring much about anyone else. His entire style and personality are built around just getting wins. Why would someone like that pass up PEDs, particularly when he knows many of the guys he fights use them?

 

If it's too good to be true, then it's exactly that.

 

deal:deal

 

He's not hitting home run records, he's not winning the tour de france.
He is slow, weak and probably has an extremely low VO2max. Physically he is as unimpressive as you'd expect from someone his age.
Boxing doesn't require anywhere near elite strength or endurance, it's not a sport that's dependant on being physically superior to your opponents. It's a sport that is largely dependant on skills and styles, and Hopkins uses his skill set to beat particular styles of opponents. We've seen very good but less skilled boxers in Calzaghe and Dawson beat Hopkins because of their advantages in stamina and speed. Dawson was too quick and Calzaghe set too high of a pace and threw too many punches to lose to Hopkins more precise occasional punching.
Hopkins isn't doing anything amazing physically. He's strategic, intelligent, disciplined with a defensive style and a good chin. He knows how to spoil, tie up, take a breather and so on.
You don't see other fighters fighting to his age because they're not in love with the game, they're not students of the game, they're not so concerned with their place in history, they're not so hard headed and determined, they don't want to get hurt, they want to make some money and get out etc.
Hopkins isn't a physical freak in anyway, shape or form. He's just a hardheaded dude who has given his life to boxing and has committed to constantly working on his skills over decades.
As someone else has said you have 80 year olds running marathons, you have 80 year olds lifting more weight than you probably can. There isn't an age where everything just falls off, it's a very gradual decline if you look after yourself. Most people on this site are probably struggling and declining at 25 with their alcohol and cheeseburger diets, and lack of exercise.
Hopkins has been a professional in every sense of the word, dieting and exercising like a mad man since he was young. He had a high level of fitness and due to his lifestyle and discipline the decline for him has been very slow, from a very high level. Still, look at him against Trinidad compared to Cloud. Age spares no one, Hopkins is just putting up a far better fight than most. Physically he is poor but mentally and strategically he is miles ahead of any fighter in the game apart from maybe Andre Ward.

To accuse him of taking PED's... man, seriously, you have to be ****ing stupid. You're disrespectful to the sport if you believe Hopkins is taking PED's, especially when the difference PEDs could theoretically make in a sport like boxing is minuscule. You have to be mentally weak and believe that you're lacking something to use PEDs, that's not Hopkins.
Hard work and dedication, give the weak old man his props.

 

This is like the folks you used to say there was no scientific proof linking smoking to cancer. If you set the bar high enough, it's very hard to prove that A causes B, especially with something as vague as "better athletic performance."

It's probably just a coincidence that Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Ben Johnson, Lance Armstrong and others did things that no person in history (often including themselves at younger ages) has ever done before while on PEDs.

The real reason that many athletes in the PED era remain good at much later ages is that, before the 1980s, nobody realized that pounding doughnuts and vodka while chain smoking and getting 4 hours of sleep was unhealthy.

 

Godammit. Now I want some doughnuts and vodka.

 

Ill admit it his physique looked better than it did vs Dawson

is he on PED's who knows, this day and age its hard to say anymore

what he is doing is incredible and that usually leads to suspicion

i dont like to throw the accusations around, PED's or not he isnt winning on drug use and whats to say Cloud doesnt take anything

i could believe PED use solely to keep his body from falling apart and breaking down like a normal person

on the flip side hes not a normal person, clean life style, no ring wars, body hasnt taken big beatings he trains smart and shows up in good form

 

PED's push the body to extremes because of the unnatural raising of the limits to your body's ability to employ resources in the destruction and reconstructions of cells. I can't imagine that being beneficial to an aging fighter.

It's certainly possible, but he was always a big Middleweight and there's nothing visibly suspicious about his physical abilities. He's arguably the smartest boxer around today and has taken good care of himself.

 

Attention dumbasses: Hopkins weighed 177 in his pro debut. He didn't weigh in at or below 160 until like his sixth fight.

 

I'm talking about peer reviewed, double-blind scientific studies on top athletes. There is scarce evidence for most PEDs, the only scientific studies where results are seen are in untrained people and generally the only positive that can be found is increased muscle mass, which isn't correlated to sports performance. Even things like HGH, EPO..

[url]http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-12/w-edi120412.php[/url]

[url]http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/100909.php[/url]

Did you know HGH can hinder endurance performance?
PED's aren't the magical pills everyone believes they are.
Talking of 'belief', that's where these things may provide a real advantage.
I don't think people understand the power of a placebo. The bigger, the badder, the naughtier the placebo the more of an effect it has on someone.

Of course correlation doesn't equal causation but to equate the 'PED's on athletes' scenario to 'Smoking on lung cancer' is idiotic and doesn't make any sense. There are many longitudinal studies on the link between lung cancer and smoking, it's a scientifically accepted fact.
PED's helping athletes performance is scientifically disproven at this point. All you have are good old anecdotes from people who make money selling these so called PED's and athletes who also believe in the advantage of wearing a 'power bracelet'.
Hopkins taking PED's is one of the stupidest things I've heard on this generally very stupid forum. Boxing in general is so far behind on things like periodization, proper training and proper nutrition - things that are proven to help performance. The focus on PED's recently and people pretending that they make all the difference, those people are idiots who are talking out of their arses, plain and simple.

 

Good point, that's one thing where a lot of these banned substances do have scientific evidence.. in decreasing longevity.

 

i really agree on the bold point, there is a lot of hindrance in training from mental gaps, i do agree a lot of this enhancement stuff makes you know you can do something and help you do it even when it was something you could do all along and your mind telling you know prevented you from doing it

on a side note, i agree with what your saying about these PED's not necessarily being so helpful as many believe. Why do you think these athletes risk their health, reputation and money going out and taking these if they arent helpful

 

Why does Christian Ronaldo wear a 'power band'? Why do some tennis players put on their left sock first, always? Athletes aren't scientists, they are often very superstitious and often looking for whatever little advantage they may gain over their opponent. Most people believe that because something is on the banned list that it will enhance their performance. Sport is big business, there is big money and people want that money. Uneducated, ultra competitive athletes and many snakes around them wanting a piece of the pie. If they can sell an athlete a placebo for thousands of dollars and convince them it will help then that's all that matters. It's not hard to sell something like that to an athlete who doesn't have the sharpest mind or morals. "Your opponents are doing it, it will help you, it's undetectable..."
An athlete isn't going to go and review the scientific literature. Cheating is looked down upon so much in the general media, and the association of banned drugs to cheating is always there. When you look at the facts the biggest danger of these substances doing anything to athletes is to their general health.
It's money and ignorance.

 

His craft won him this fight not his physicality or power ect so it's a pretty stupid thing to ask, if he knocked him down or out or fought at an unusually high intensity then maybe but he didn't so no.

 

with that in mind it would seem like anybody would use anything to get any form of edge

basically the reason why i can never say with perfect confidence who does and who doesnt bend or break the rules anymore