I get what you're saying, but I have to say I actually thought Joe did some pretty good stuff defensively in that 2nd Foreman fight while it lasted. (Not that this detracts from your greater point).
That is interesting. I personally always thought Frazier was a bit too predictable with his weave, but maybe I'm being unfair to him. I'll have to rewatch some of his fights to reassess my opinion. As others have noted, it might also be down to Dempsey using a wider variety of footwork more so than him being more erratic in his weave per se.
What "nostalgia" would I have for Dempsey? This content is protected Here's a good place to start. Demspey shows very competent control of distance and movement in the Willard fight, if you want to point to a singular fight. Also if you read "championship fighting" Dempsey goes into detail explain his defense.
Yes I know Dempsey could fight. Slipping shots from Brennan, Firpo and Willard would be a bit easier than Ali, Quarry, Ellis and even Big Buster Mathis had more speed and coordination than Dempsey's comp. I admit that I haven't seen Dempsey pretitle run so maybe there are some guys but not on the film thats available. Here is Cus explaining the flaws in Jack Dempsey's defense. Around the 21 minute mark This content is protected
I agree. I would like to view some pre title fights I've read about so I could get a gauge on some of his opponents.
Dempsey and it’s not close. Dempsey was very quick both of hand and foot. Joe lacked foot speed. He said so himself. Thus Dempsey could close distance faster. Dempsey’s low crouch was not problematic in terms of being more susceptible in getting hit by a jab. Head movement allowed Dempsey (as well as Frazier) slip punches as the moved forward. Finally a great offense boosts ones defense. Dempsey had KO power in both fists and had great coordination with both fists. Frazier only had one punch he could use with great effectiveness and lacked this coordination. A huge flaw.
So, in short: Frazier had better head movement. His reactions were better against good quick boxers. Dempsey had better, quicker footwork. He was tougher to hit cleanly by power punches and he could easier get out from danger zone. I can't say who had better defense. Dempsey would probably struggle more against Ali jab but at the same time I doubt he would be timed so easily by Foreman. It's not an easy thing, one can be better in certain situation than the other.
I recall seeing a quote (from either a trainer or former boxer) claiming that a big problem with Frazier’s bob-and-weave was that he usually ended up returning with his head to the center line when he finished. Meant to go back and watch the footage for myself but never got around to it.
Frazier waswgood at tucking his chin and the punches that often made contact were high on his head. He had a rock for a head but he could roll and slide with the shots. Even though his opponent is making contact he can't stop Frazier from moving in. He protected that chin better than people think.
I think Dempsey's could look a lot better, but was much more tempramental, with him abandoning it at times
I find it funny, for all the comparisons and similarities between Tyson and Dempsey, Tyson really didn't have Dempsey's inside game, which was one of Dempsey's big strengths. I think Tyson was a better athlete, but Dempsey's fighting style was a lot more versatile.
Yeah, Tyson's inside game is overrated imo. His right hook to the ribs then uppercut to the head was vicious tho. I don't think I'd be wrong in saying no one has the same level of speed, technical skill and power at mid range. Outside of maybe Louis
