The WBC does NOT make champions, they make BELTS. This is a FACT. The WBA does NOT make champions, they make BELTS. This is a FACT. The IBF does NOT make champions, they make BELTS. This is a FACT. The WBO does NOT make champions, they make BELTS. This is a FACT. The IBO does NOT make champions, they make BELTS. This is a FACT. The WBF does NOT make champions, they make BELTS. This is a FACT. The Ring Magazine does NOT make champions, they make BELTS and erronious P4P lists. This is a FACT. When Jack Johnson was the HW champion of the world, the WBC/WBA/WBO/IBF/IBO/WBF DIDN'T EXIST. This is a FACT. Champions are made IN THE RING - not by alphabet organizations, Genius. Try getting a CLUE.
Well then, let me counter you with a simple question. If the undisputed champion retires and the championship is vacant, how do we determine who are the top 2 contenders to fight for the championship? The Ring ratings, some website ratings, or a fighter just needs to win every belt? And before you say that they are determined by the consensus, have in mind that the consensus means 100%, which further means that if there is a single disagreement, it is no longer a consensus. Back in the reality, there are 4 recognized organizations (WBA/WBC/IBF/WBO) in pro boxing, regardless if we might or might not respect them. If someone is the WBA world champion, then he is the WBA world champion, and that is the fact. Indisputable and undeniable. What you may think about the organization, the belt or its champion, that's up for a debate and not a fact. That's right, those organizations didn't exist back then. However, they do exist right now and whether you choose to ignore that fact or not, that's the reality. What seems to me is that you actually do understand what I'm explaining to you, yet you purposely choose to act ignorantly. No other explanation for keep repeating the same stuff when everything is already presented right in front of you.
Recognized by WHOM exactly? I certainly don't recognize them. Is there any language in any of the state athletic commissions that mentions these 4 "recognized" organizations? If not then tell me exactly WHO are these organizations recognized by? The WBA world champion is the champion of the WBA, NOT the World - and that is a FACT. That's right. The HW world championship, the MW world championship, etc ALL came BEFORE the alphabet organizations. Therefore, alphabet organizations do NOT make WORLD champions in boxing, Genius. World championship titles PREDATE alphabet organizations. 1 + 1 = 2 I understand that you don't have a ****ing CLUE...
Recognized by the countries across the world? If those organizations don't determine the world champions, then who does? It was Hopkins who gained the legitimacy by winning the belts of those same organizations, wasn't he? Also, you didn't answer the question, how exactly are you going to determine who are the top 2 contenders after the previous champion retires? Right, and who created those "world championship titles"? It wasn't the god himself, was he? You just like to talk a lot of nonsense when you don't have an argument.
Guerrero is a fringe welter. Doesnt have a top 10 win at welter, and made hard work of noncontenders like Kamegai and Aydin
According to WHOM? THE FANS, you idiot. The FANS who respect Boxing history and precedent - which both have NOTHING to do with any alphabet organization. NO. Hopkins was legitimized by the FACT that he beat the BEST. That's what CHAMPIONS do. Alphabet organizations got NOTHING to do with it... Popular consensus. The two best fighters in a division are who the FANS say are the the best. Again, alphabet organizations got NOTHING to do with it. No, and it damn sure wasn't the WBA/WBA/IBF/WBO/IBO/WBF. Only on Planet GolovIdiot...
Why do seemingly intelligent poster's spend so much time and energy arguing with obtuse flotsam? The same people picking Thurman would also pick Berto.
According to the national boxing federations of those countries? The fans? I thought that you would have come up with better than that. Consensus by the fans? You do understand that things like bias, favoritism, nationality, style and many other things play a role in fans' considering one fighter better than another? Also, there can never be a total consensus among all the fans regardless of what the topic is about, opinions will always differ. If that is the case, what happens if a guy who is considered #1, fights a guy who is considered #2 only by part of the fans, while the other part considers the third guy to be #3? So who was it? The boxing fans from around the world? Who? Ok, whatever. You turning it into insulting just tells what kind of individual you are. I shouldn't have put an effort to begin with.
The US has no "national boxing federation" so why should anyone in this country take the alphabet organizations seriously? It's obvious that YDKSAB. See above. LOL. And exactly HOW do you think the alphabet organizations decide where to rank fighters. Here's a clue; $$$ They've ALL sold a #1 ranking at some point. Some still do. *cough* WBC *cough* So who said anything about a "total consensus"? I said "consensus". Stop putting words in my mouth. Well that's exactly why they FIGHT - to determine WHO is the best. In that way, there can be no question. No alphabet organizations are necessary. Whoever created the concept of the World title, I can PROMISE you it WASN'T the alphabet organizations. Perhaps the concept of a World Champion was created by the Olympians. I accept your surrender...
It had to be someone, right? And who made that individual or organization competent to decide such thing? Also, technically, boxing as a sport was a part of the Olympic games in ancient Greece, which is much older than the previously mentioned concept, isn't it? Ok, if you are considering another poster's unwillingness to waste time because of you being offensive and throwing the insults around, take it as whatever you want.
Ok, I'm still waiting for you to tell me why anyone should take the alphabet organizations seriously...
I already told you that they are recognized as the sport's governing bodies by the national federations of countries across the world. They are also recognized by the European Boxing Union, which is recognized by the European countries as well. Now, I'm no expert about the system in the United States, so I can't say much about it. However, those organizations (or at least their concept) originate from the US where that was originally based, and they have managed to establish themselves as the major governing bodies of pro boxing there as well. And I am not even defending such concept, nor I'm one of its supporters (neither of those organizations are recognized by the International Olympic Committee to my knowledge), but I am saying that if you want to take an objective view on the things, that's the reality. You have already gone through the offensive kind of comments, and considering that I've been more than fair while you've turned it to insults, there's nothing else to debate with you.