Bob Fitzsimmons vs Joe Choynski at HW

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by 70sFan865, May 12, 2020.

?

Better heavyweight?

  1. Bob Fitzsimmons

    19 vote(s)
    95.0%
  2. Joe Choynski

    1 vote(s)
    5.0%
  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    What both men said after the fight:

    Joe Choynski

    "I do not see any newspaper mention of the interference by them (the police) at that time. When I sent Fitzsimmons to the boards full down with a lefthander to the jaw I thought the jig was all up. He probably thought so about me in the fifth round, when the police interfered again. He thinks that he would have won, I suppose, if the officers had let him alone. Well I think I'd have won if they let me alone."

    Bob Fitzsimmons a year later said

    "Joe Choynski came the nearest putting me out of any man I have ever gone up against. He is a terrific hitter, and really gave me the worst punching I ever got."
     
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  2. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    Keeping in mind that Jeffries has been quoted as saying that Choynski hit him the hardest of anyone he ever fought, and that he KO'd a young Jack Johnson, makes you wonder what was going on when "The Barbados Demon" Joe Walcott demolished him (5 knockdowns in the first round 1!)
     
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  3. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Indeed, looking at their weights, you wonder why Choynski didn't go after the middleweight title.
     
  4. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Let's examine the timeline for both, just to be sure that I'm not using double standards:

    Bill McCarthy:
    ND against Joe in 1889
    KO loss against Fitz in 1890

    Jim Hall:
    KO win against Joe in 1892
    KO loss against Fitz in 1893/KO win in 1890

    Dan Creedon
    Draw against Joe in 1995
    KO loss against Fitz in 1994

    Tom Sharkey
    PTS win against Joe in 1896
    DQ win against Fitz in 1896

    Peter Maher
    KO win against Joe in 1896
    KO loss against Fitz in 1896

    Tom Sharkey
    KO win against Joe in 1900
    KO loss against Fitz in 1900

    Philadelphia Jack O'Brian
    Win against Joe in 1903
    Loss against Fitz in 1904

    No double standards, common competiton in the same timespan.
     
  5. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I move our discussion to proper thread.

    So either Choynski fought longer at high level, or he was more inexperienced. You can't have it both ways.
    Both Choynski and Corbett were green in their fights and Corbett beat up Joe badly in rematch.

    Corbett wasn't active throughout his career. It doesn't mean that he was rusty. Besides, Fitzsimmons beat Corbett, Choynski never did.
    By the way, Corbett had fight against Sharkey a year before Fitz fight. So no, he wasn't inactive for 2-3 years.

    Corbett won first half of the fight, but after knockdown in 6th, Fitz started to take over the fight. It wasn't a lucky punch, it was Bob's strategy. He found Corbett more and more attacking the body and it took away a lot from Jim.

    It wasn't lucky punch and Fitzsimmons started winning way before KO. Keep in mind that the fight was not a 15 rounder, Corbett tiring after 8 rounds didn't give him much chances to finish the fight.
    Or Fitzsimmons wouldn't have been confused with Corbett's odd style and he would have knocked him out faster.
    He wasn't a "father of modern boxing". He was fast and talented guy with great reflex who was a good bullshitter and tried to sell himself as a great technician. Fitzsimmons was better fighter with better resume.
     
  6. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That's because they didn't face him at the same time.
     
  7. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Fitzsimmons fought 15 years at HW.
    He had a fight against Sharkey just a year before Fitzsimmons fight. He was retired, but not for a long time.
    I haven't seen whole fight, but you can read reports. Corbett was unlucky at the end because Fitzsimmons started to time him again and again. It's visible even in very limited footage of this fight.
    This is the first time I've heard this excuse. Corbett was in fantastic shape for Fitzsimmons fight. He also wasn't at his heaviest, he fought heavier against Jeffries for example.
    I'm sure that you base it on casual view of 1880s boxing, but this is not true. There were more "scientific" fighters than Corbett way before he started his career. During Corbett's career there were better and more skilled fighters around too - Dempsey, Ryan, O'Brian. Corbett wasn't techical genius, he was fast and unorthodox fighter who was hard to catch cleanly.
    Jab strategy existed way before Corbett.

    Corbett didn't have great punching technique, Fitz was far better puncher than him. Bob used more types of punches by all accounts and was dangerous with both hands.
    Their footwork is different, as Corbett tried to stay outside and run for whole fight. Meanwhile Fitz used his footwork to set up attacks, he's known for Fitzsimmons shift for example.
     
  8. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Corbett fought against Sharkey literally less than a year before Fitzsimmons fight.
    It was a well-known fact that the Earth was round back to the ancient times.

    Fitzsimmons had every punch in his book and he's known for fast straight rights and lefts, what are you talking about?
     
  9. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What fights of Fitz have you seen? There are literally 2 of his incomplete fights available online (and neither of them has much clean footage).
     
  10. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Could you post them here please? I didn't know that any of these fights were filmed (outside of Corbett fight of course).
     
  11. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You can use this site:
    https://streamable.com/
     
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  12. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    This content is protected


    If you mean this one, it's a total fake, neither is Fitz or Jeffries
     
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  13. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Jack Johnson said of Fitzsimmons about their fight ( by then Fitz was circa 42 ) that even when Bobs punches missed, the sound was like a swarm of Bees , that when Fitz was a very old man, also he had remarkable recuperative powers, of herculean proportions, must have been a nightmare to fight in his prime.
     
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  14. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is Corbett's fight that is available for years. You can find it on YT.

    How about Johnson and Jeffries fights? Could you find and upload them?
     
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  15. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    The footage of the KO was totally ruined, and they tried to peice together from fragments, you can see he was in agony when he was down.
     
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