OK. So you think that fighters of Fitzsimmons era were so primitive that even average fighters of the 70 could have taken them? I guess you will have to jump on the roller coaster and see wher you end up (joking aside). Nobody has ever gone into an intensive research of Bob Fitzsimmons and ended up where they started.
Who did Fitzsimmons spark that had a chin comparable to Dick Tiger, out of curiosity? I'm curious how he did against iron chinned fighters.
Would go with Frazier; not as so sure, though, if they were coming along at the same time and had the same environmental influences.
I havent got the time to consider this right now, but my first guess is that Frazier wins quite comfortably and easier. But as i seem to learn, every time i start to investigate things and look fully at the matter, Fitz' prospects tend to greatly improve. So, we need to start by considering the fighters that Fitz fought similar to Frazier. At first glance, i can think of Jeffries. Jeffries has the power and left hook of Frazier, but maybe not quite the workrate. Despite his two KO losses Fitz did surprisingly well against Jeffries in fights to the finish. In fact, he inflicted enough damage on jeffries to earn a TKO under most post war conditions so, it seems a Fitz win might not be totally out of the question. I will have to consider whether Maher, Sharkey etc are like Frazier later, as i have to go.
Jeffries couldn't slip a punch like Ali, nor would they be wearing the smaller (potentially loaded) gloves that let Fitz inflict that kind of damage.
A prime 205lb Frazier would demolish a prime 167lb Fitzimmons. Too much speed, too much power and too much workrate. Fitz stood straight up with his hands low as was prevelant in his time. That's ok if the other guy fights like that as well as it becomes a set the other guy up for a big shot in between a lot of posturing and holding type of affair. Frazier obviously didn't fight like that. He would be all over Fitz from the 1st bell and Fitz wouldn't be able to cope. Frazier by early KO.
well probably i believe something else then most people here. i do believe that frazier will win but not by ko or tko in the early rounds. first of all joe was a low starter and second i think fitzsimmons deserves a little more credit. i think some of the top light heavys would have be very good competion for most of the heavys
If I suggested say, Marvin Hagler vs Joe Frazier, the verdict would be unanimous. Purely by not having the footage to prove he was old-fashioned and ill-equipped to face someone like Frazier, Fitz gets a free pass due to 'newspaper reports'. I don't think for a second that Jeffries was anywhere near as good as Frazier. I don't believe that a 167lb man should be fighting a HW. Here you go, Carl Froch vs Joe Frazier? Froch is about 12 stone, we've seen him as quite a crude fighter, but then by todays standards so would Fitz be. Would Froch be given half a round in there with Frazier? No, and rightly so. So why is Fitz given a free pass? 'He fought someone who was 260lbs' well he sounds out of shape to me. I've seen a pretty small guy knock out a massive guy in the street. If both of these guys had the conditioning experts that boxers have nowdays, with the easy way of getting knowledge on getting the best out of every muscle, DVD's to study their opponents etc etc etc then I guaran-damn-tee you that the little guy would get annihilated by the big guy. We're not talking height here; weight and genuine size. Joe Frazier was a big man regardless of his height. He was a NATURAL heavyweight, it's clear to see. Fitz, at 170lb or whatever, would be cannon fodder. I can't beieve he gets a free pass just because he's old. Have 100 or so years meant the human race has turned feeble? Why wouldn't a man of Fitz size be given a fair shake against a Heavy nowadays? I'll tell you why, it's implausible.
I think the difference here is that Fitzsimmons was the heavyweight champion of the world, while Hagler never beat anyone north of 160lbs. I will say that things are a bit skewed, since the boxing rules under which Fitz fought gave smaller guys a relative better chance, and skilled heavyweights rarely weighed over 210lbs back then, unlike in Frazier's day. Still, fact remains that Fitzsimmons undeniably knocked out several 180+lbs top men of his day, sometimes in devastating fashion. For the record, i'd definitely go with Frazier in this matchup.
Thats true but his first stoppage to Lablanche was as a result of a backhanded punch ,named afterwards the pivot blow this was in the 32nd rd . Dempsey was fouled so the title remained with him. His second stoppage was to Fitz a mighty puncher after 13 rds,Dempsey was 33 Dempsey's last stoppage was to Tommy Ryan when he was 37. Statistics dont tell all the story.
I'm not really sure if I consider Frazier a slow starter. In my view he fought at the same, relentless pace for every round, it was simply up to his opponent when he was going to break under it or not break at all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKdaiTSvzVU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1JC2u23FxU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvR7PeRuCzU
Frazier is too big. I pick him. Fitz is a dangerous enough puncher that there is some sort of chance he could get to the slow-starting Frazier early, so this is not an out fight, but Frazier should win easily.