Since all of his oponents records are incomplete it is verry hard to asess how good they were outside of the top names on his record.
Most of everyones opposition is against bums, just look at Frazier's record. Fitzsimmons fought plenty of greats in his time and won against many of them. He did win against Peter Maher, 15 pounds heavier and Jim Corbett, 17 pounds heavier in heavyweight title fights (boxrec stats). Is that not impressive? Maybe he should have beaten all of them including Jack Johnson and James Jeffries. If Roy Jones wasnt a real heavyweight champ your just making my point even clearer atsch, if your right no-one has gone from middleweight to light-heavyweight to heavyweight champ since Fitzsimmons, making his feat even more outstanding. Fitzsimmons should be ahead of Frazier on any pound for pound list. Hes certainly an ATG. I've already explained why and if you dont agree thats up to you but your wrong. Its obvious and not even worth arguing over. Also, I'm not saying dont use Boxrec just take it with a pinch of salt, it would have you believe that Jimmy Wilde only knocked out debut boxers in his first hundred fights, back then they werent accurate in keeping records. Sorry for saying you write **** in your posts though, that was over the top. I saw you call Foreman an overrated coward earlier and was still irritated by it when I wrote that post. I cant stand people calling fighters cowards.
:deali have to agree. You can't bring fitzsimmons in from 100 years ago, keep his skill set and ignore his size. Nor can you ignore the advances in technique. if Bob had 5 years to adapt or had fought in frazier'd era it may be different but he didn't. he fought in an era before combination punching, with the stand up style that frazier would have eaten up. frazier would have overpowered him, worked the body and though fitz had one shot power i doubt it would have been enough to stall frazier's attack or stop him. from what i read he had precision punching and would have tried to work frazier's body and could have damaged his eye if he went up top but i still see this as a frazier domination.
Are you sure about that Janitor Fitz liked them big and slow, so he could catch them off balance when they come in. This sounds exactly like Foreman. I think i would definitely give a Fitz a better chance against Foreman than against Frazier. Dont know if I would necessarilly pick him, but i think that some would. I would definitely pick him against "Old" George Foreman.
true , and i hoped it won't get to it because i meant compare the ratio of quality oposition/total oposition between frazier and fitzsimmons , frazier will have it much higher , and please stop using the incomplete records excuse , here i've a better one or two for you : there simply was less possible quality oposition and its quality was lower and this is because the explanation i gave in the post i gave that irritated you about foreman. that explanation will also explain why even if the records were complete , i'd still be true in what i said about the old-timers oposition in majority (again : not all) of cases , except deservedly legends and still perenial underrated fighters like langford. you forget that fitzsimmons' age heavyweights (175+) are not the size and even not the quality of today's superheavyweights (200+). also someone here mentioned the comparison between then and now gloves which aditionally puts fitzsimmons' achievements in perspective.
Fitz does better than than Foster but the strong legs and hook of Frazier too much...Frazier with a 5th rd Jimmy Ellis type of stop
Four pages...i was determined not to look in on this one. Fitz is great. I rate him. And I mean I rate him head to head. Even if the "nutrition...evolution...sports science" types are right (they're wrong), Fitz is still valid head to head because of his style - he's a trapping counter-puncher with dynamite in his paws. But. His style is begging for him to be overwhelmed by Joe Frazier. Frazier has power, accuracy, fast hands, is mobile, was a great mover in close at his prime and had bags of heart. Even if Fitz connects, I wouldn't pick him to get the best of what comes after neccessarily. Basically Fitz needs the perfect punch to win this one. I'll pick Joe to overwhelm Fitz early. Very early. First round in fact.
I guess its a matter of opinion, in my eyes he's a top 30 ATG but not in everyones I guess. Im a lover of that particular era as well and Fitz took on all-comers. I thought his level of competition was very impressive. Dempsey, Choynski, Maher, Sharkey, Corbett, Jeffries, Gardner, O'Brien, Johnson, that is some level of competition. First three weight world champ, incredible.
I'm starting to study Fitz more...there is nothing to dislike about him. Toughness, resilency, heart, character...Great all time fighter.
Just remember he was stopped at least (boxrec reports it) twice before he was old. and also made draws , ND's , and a DQ loss after 8 rounds. all of these against guys less than jeffries' size and many times less than himself's , you exaggerate , you are too effected by the corbett fight , corbett was a tall and lean fighter suspect and made for a punch like fitzsimmons gave him , corbett himself was no more than a lightheavy. also remember the gloves thing again . how do you think he'll fare against langford in 5 fights (12 rounds each) ? also he wouldn't have stopped reggie johnson nor toney with today's gloves , or... with then gloves it becomes a who lands first game. jones and griffin would have been kings then , i don't mean they would have been undefeated , but so weren't those that fought then , griffin doesn't have a great chin , but , with then gloves , if you know him , he would have the better chance to be the first to land an oppurtuninstic blow and finish fitzsimmons (because of the gloves being less padded). also qawi would have destroyed him , qawi had what it takes to absorb body punches (even with those gloves).
the thing is , fitzsimmons will be the one who will have to come in. foreman will be able to land from the outside , big , slow , but it will be quite similar to the frazier fights. fitzsimmons will also have trouble reaching foreman's head/chin. remember the size diference - foreman is even bigger than jeffries. he also padded enough to absorb body punches - unlike corbett . so , maybe he'll get hit alittle , but will land bigger and win.
Fitzsimmons seems to have been absolute dynamite against bigger punchers who came after him. He seems to have gambled heavily that his counters would hurt the bigger men more than their leads hurt him and the gamble always seems to have paid off. You have to figure however that there comes a point where this gamble catches up with him and Fraziers furious workrate might just provide that point.