Bute will never fight Ward

drozzy · Dec 18, 2011

mdionis said: ↑

It might be of some interest in answering the question of this thread to quote what Bute actually said after the S6 final: "Concerning Ward, I am ready to go [to fight him] even in his hometown, Oakland. Another option would be New York too. I want to clear out who's the best."
Click to expand...

:smoke :happy :smoke

Phys · Dec 18, 2011

drozzy said: ↑

Alright, I had posted the link, so hey...

"THE UNWARRANTED CONTROVERSY:

The referee is not responsible for timekeeping, except according to Rule No.2, after he picks up the count from the knockdown timekeeper, the second timekeeper. Marlon B. Wright, the referee, did not know that Bute had been knocked down two seconds left until the end of the round, because he has no way of knowing how many minutes, tens of seconds or seconds are left in a round, at any point after the starting bell. He can only guess, but it's not his job to do that either. That is why there is a timekeeper to keep track of time and announce the referee, if appropriate, using the bell, when the round is over.

Had the referee known that Bute had been knocked down with as little as two seconds until the end of the round, he would not have concentrated on Andrade to any extent, but would just have established whether Bute beat the count or not. Since the knockdown occurred two seconds before the end of the fight, Andrade became irrelevant. There was no time left in the round for Bute to get up, get the mandatory eight (8) count, for the fight to be restarted and for Andrade to play a further role in the fight. According to Rule No. 2, the referee, after sending Andrade to the neutral corner, was to pick up the count from the second timekeeper, the knockdown timekeeper, and continue counting. According to Rule No. 6, the main timekeeper was to ring the bell ending the bout as soon as Bute was up on his feet and his hands clear of the floor, as long as Bute had beaten the count, which he did. After ringing the bell, the referee was to invite the judges to give their decision, no knockout having been scored in the fight.

But the timekeeper failed to abide by the rules and failed to ring the bell, so the referee did not know that the bout was over. He must have assumed, reasonably, that since the bell did not ring, there was still time left in the three minute period for the fight to continue. Remember that the referee didn't know at what time during the round the knockdown occurred. He could have assumed that is occurred with ten, fifteen, twenty seconds or even longer left of the three minute round, not, as in the actual case, with two seconds left. In the absence of the timekeeper's final bell, he allowed the bout to continue, when, according to the rules, it had been over the very moment Bute beat the count.

"THE LONG COUNT"

"The long count" shouldn't even have taken place! Yet, it did, and it was responsible in great part for the controversy. "The long count" lasted twenty (20) seconds, not 24, as Andrade's Golden Boy Promotions' representative or Nick Charles from Showtime would have us believe. Just watch the video and convince yourselves! After Bute was knocked down, the referee sent Andrade to the neutral corner, picked up the count from the knockdown referee and counted to six (6). Bute was already up by the referee's count of six. He had beaten the count and the fight was over. Because the timekeeper failed to signal the end of the fight, the referee wrongly assumed there was still time left of the three minute period and carried on. Andrade also wrongly assumed there was still time left for him to play a further role in the fight. Having reached the count of six, the referee noticed that Andrade had moved from the neutral corner towards the centre of the ring, trying to gain an unfair advantage by closing the distance between him and his opponent. According to Rule No. 4, if the contestant standing leaves the corner before the count has been completed, the referee shall discontinue the count and order the standing contestant back into the corner. The count will not resume until the standing contestant has returned to the neutral corner. Andrade left his corner before the referee could complete his count. Marlon B. Wright discontinued the count and ordered Andrade back into the corner. He did not resume the count until Andrade had returned to the neutral corner. The referee obeyed the rules thoroughly and completely. "The long count" wasn't long at all. The only person responsible for "the long count" being as long as it was, is Andrade, who left the neutral corner to gain an unfair advantage. Although not seen in the video above, the Canadian PPV transmission showed Andrade almost half way across the ring, when the referee asked him to get back into his neutral corner. The 16,000+ in the arena saw it with their own eyes too! It's undeniable, whatever Andrade himself would have us believe.

"The long count" is irrelevant to the question of whether Bute was knocked out and to the question whether Andrade was robbed of his chance to finish Bute off, because it occurred after the bout was effectively over. To the extent that it is at all controversial, it only characterises the referee's supposed bias towards Bute. It is not material to the bout or to whether the right man won or not, because it occurred after the end of the fight. Had the timekeeper obeyed the rules and rang the final bell as soon as Bute was up on his feet with his hands clear of the floor, six seconds after the end of the final three minute period, "the long count" would not even have occurred. The fight was over. Bute beat the count. The decision should have gone directly to the judges because no knockout had been scored.

After the referee sent Andrade back to his corner, he resumed the count at six (6). In other words, he counted six twice! This irregular incident contributed to pundits characterising the referee as biased towards Bute. Bute was given an extra second to recover. Although irregular, this incident is immaterial to whether Bute was knocked out or not or to whether the referee stole a precious second from Andrade, depriving him of the chance to try and knock Bute out, after the fight was restarted. It is immaterial because Bute already beat the count before the referee counted six for the first time, so he didn't depend on that extra count of six to beat the count, and because the fight was already over before the referee restarted the count and counted six for the second time, so Andrade was no deprived of that extra second in his attempt to finish Bute off.

The fight was over but no one knew it, because the timekeeper had failed to ring the bell signalling the end of the fight the moment Bute was up on his feet with his hands clear of the floor, eight seconds after the knockdown, six seconds after the end of the three minute period, as Rule No. 6 requires. The referee continued the eight (8) count, finished the eight (8) count, asked Bute if he was ready to carry on by demanding that he raise his gloves, Bute raised his gloves, signalling he was ready to continue, the referee restarted the fight (even though it had long been over, according to the rules), Bute took a small step forward, and then and only then, did the timekeeper ring the bell. After hearing the bell, the referee waved it off."

...next para is called "Was Bute knocked out?" - you should check it out. :smoke
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Spare me the long winded palaver, the paste job.
Didn't read. No need to .
the video makes clear how corrupt the ref was.

In the last Rd, he kept Andrade off of him numerous times to buy Bute time. An impartial ref would have led to Andrade KOing him earlier in the Rd.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8N4-xN5468[/ame]

drozzy · Dec 18, 2011

Phys said: ↑

Spare me the long winded palaver, the paste job.
Didn't read. No need to .
the video makes clear how corrupt the ref was.

In the last Rd, he kept Andrade off of him numerous times to buy Bute time. An impartial ref would have led to Andrade KOing him earlier in the Rd.
Click to expand...

Didn't read? Spare me the uninformed bullshat then.

All Bute had to do was to clear his hands off the floor and stand up, and he beat the count. All that as per the IBF rules.

I agree that other refs could have stopped it before the KD... but the ending unfolded as per the rules, you're an ignorant **** to suggest otherwise.

Phys · Dec 18, 2011

Phys said: ↑

Spare me the long winded palaver, the paste job.
Didn't read. No need to .
the video makes clear how corrupt the ref was.

In the last Rd, he kept Andrade off of him numerous times to buy Bute time. An impartial ref would have led to Andrade KOing him earlier in the Rd.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8N4-xN5468
Click to expand...

drozzy said: ↑

Didn't read? Spare me the uninformed bullshat then.

All Bute had to do was to clear his hands off the floor and stand up, and he beat the count. All that as per the IBF rules.

I agree that other refs could have stopped it before the KD... but the ending unfolded as per the rules, you're an ignorant **** to suggest otherwise.
Click to expand...

U r a joke.
As I indicated we can see the ref was corrupt. While it is most blatant in the 12th RD, Bute gassed earlier, and the whole fight would have to be reviewed.

And we can also see where u r from.

Just more of the stupidity of trying to create rules or fantasies for their home town boy.

Honest Verdict: KO or TKO 12th Rd. Andrade Win

But that's not what the record will say forever more due to hometown cooking.

drozzy · Dec 18, 2011

Phys said: ↑

U r a joke.
As I indicated we can see the ref was corrupt. While it is most blatant in the 12th RD, Bute gassed earlier, and the whole fight would have to be reviewed.

And we can also see where u r from.

Just more of the stupidity of trying to create rules or fantasies for their home town boy.

Honest Verdict: KO or TKO 12th Rd. Andrade Win

But that's not what the record will say forever more due to hometown cooking.
Click to expand...

Unfounded allegations based on your own bias a "fan", with no fact vs rule interpretation done even when given the tools to do it.

...and I'm a joke?

You sir, as a poster, are a piece of ****.

The IBF actually issued a public statement after the fight mentioning that everything was in good order & as per the rules.

**** off with the hometown cooking, you deluded hater... :yep

TitoMahawk · Dec 18, 2011

Badlok said: ↑

And who Ward will fight if Bute doesn't diserve it?

Anthony Direll ?
Click to expand...

This is the question that is never answered in threads like this.

I'ts like they always close their eyes when they see it...

christo · Dec 18, 2011

Phys said: ↑

I am sorry to say, it will be like FLoyd and Pac. Don't think FLoyd will ever risk fighting Pac.

Bute risks losing, and losing his "0", so I can see Bute fighting Froch, Kessler and others, and avoiding Ward like the plague, unless somehow he is forced to.

But I think again he would rather give up any belts than face Ward.
Bute might do better than Froch. Then again as some here say Librade beat Bute, and that is basically correct.

OTOH, Bute seems to have gotten better since then.

Back to Ward, he too seems to have gotten even better than ever.

In the final analysis Ward seens to have too many ways to defeat people now.

Ward could be champ for many years, or until someone like prime Roy or Calzaghe caliber comes along.

Only thing Ward might improve is his stamina at the end.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are. you may log off now.

Badlok · Dec 18, 2011

TitoMahawk said: ↑

This is the question that is never answered in threads like this.

I'ts like they always close their eyes when they see it...
Click to expand...

I must have ask this question ten times since this morning! still didn't have one answer :roll:

MrSillery · Dec 18, 2011

Phys said: ↑

I am sorry to say, it will be like FLoyd and Pac. Don't think FLoyd will ever risk fighting Pac.

Bute risks losing, and losing his "0", so I can see Bute fighting Froch, Kessler and others, and avoiding Ward like the plague, unless somehow he is forced to.

But I think again he would rather give up any belts than face Ward.
Bute might do better than Froch. Then again as some here say Librade beat Bute, and that is basically correct.

OTOH, Bute seems to have gotten better since then.

Back to Ward, he too seems to have gotten even better than ever.

In the final analysis Ward seens to have too many ways to defeat people now.

Ward could be champ for many years, or until someone like prime Roy or Calzaghe caliber comes along.

Only thing Ward might improve is his stamina at the end.
Click to expand...

I agree that this fight may never happen, but not because one fighter is afraid of the other : because of $$$

Interbox is making a shitload of money in Canada with Bute.
Bute vs Ward would easily fill the Bell Centre in Montreal.

But Ward has more belts than Bute. Ward won the S6. So Dan Goossen probably thinks that they call the shots (and they are probably right).
If Ward hasn't left the States to fight in the S6... he surely won't come to Canada now that he's the champion.

So, the fight has to be in the States.
Interbox already said that they are willing to go to NYC.
The problem : Bute vs Ward won't sell out the Madison Square Garden
(Bute isn't a local, and isn't a big name in the US... and there was only 6800 people for the final of the S6)

Goossen will probably ask for a lot of money from Interbox (Ward won 900 000$ against Froch. Johnson won around 500 000$ against Bute)
I'm afraid that Goossen will ask too much (hell yeah, why not? he has the champion!) money for a fight that won't generate that much money

sabsman · Dec 18, 2011

bute fans will go to NY, 6 hour drive. even if it is in NY you will find that the majoraty will be bute fans. many people think that the reason bute fights at home is because of protection. that was maybe true in the biggining of his career but that is true for all fighters that have potential. the maine reason is simply $$$. he is willing to go anywhere, but still nobody is claming his belt, at home or away. he is fed up of wayting for others to call him out (pls no pascal or b-hop as an argument). come on. to all who claime easy wins over bute pls start a patission as to get your fighters to call him out. free easy belt to claime for local or where ever u are. pls pls pls i beg you all. i want thease fights to happen.

tottenham19 · Dec 18, 2011

Looks like Ward wants to duck...

Phys · Dec 18, 2011

MrSillery said: ↑

I agree that this fight may never happen, but not because one fighter is afraid of the other : because of $$$

Interbox is making a shitload of money in Canada with Bute.
Bute vs Ward would easily fill the Bell Centre in Montreal.

But Ward has more belts than Bute. Ward won the S6. So Dan Goossen probably thinks that they call the shots (and they are probably right).
If Ward hasn't left the States to fight in the S6... he surely won't come to Canada now that he's the champion.

So, the fight has to be in the States.
Interbox already said that they are willing to go to NYC.
The problem : Bute vs Ward won't sell out the Madison Square Garden
(Bute isn't a local, and isn't a big name in the US... and there was only 6800 people for the final of the S6)

Goossen will probably ask for a lot of money from Interbox (Ward won 900 000$ against Froch. Johnson won around 500 000$ against Bute)
I'm afraid that Goossen will ask too much (hell yeah, why not? he has the champion!) money for a fight that won't generate that much money
Click to expand...

Well one thing Ward v Bute would have is 2 fighters with "0"s. "One 0 has to go."

Phys · Dec 18, 2011

sabsman said: ↑

bute fans will go to NY, 6 hour drive. even if it is in NY you will find that the majoraty will be bute fans. many people think that the reason bute fights at home is because of protection. that was maybe true in the biggining of his career but that is true for all fighters that have potential. the maine reason is simply $$$. he is willing to go anywhere, but still nobody is claming his belt, at home or away. he is fed up of wayting for others to call him out (pls no pascal or b-hop as an argument). come on. to all who claime easy wins over bute pls start a patission as to get your fighters to call him out. free easy belt to claime for local or where ever u are. pls pls pls i beg you all. i want thease fights to happen.
Click to expand...

That drive is a lot more than 6 hrs.

SuperiorBeen · Dec 18, 2011

How ******ed can someone be to accuse Bute of ducking Ward? This guy has been saying for over a year that he wants to fight the S6 winner. This was the only reason he signed with Showtime. He would have made a lot more money if he would stayed with HBO.

sabsman · Dec 18, 2011

Phys said: ↑

That drive is a lot more than 6 hrs.
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use to sell christmas trees on broadway for 3 years every winter. i use to do it stait in about 6, 6:30 hours, but it was like 3 or 4 a.m everytime. so i did speed a bit.

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Bute will never fight Ward

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