Can A Case Be Made To Place Duran At #1 P4P All Time?

He was never quite same fighter after LeonardI so I suppose on that logic he was 1-0....

 

You're judging too much on 'fame' again. Although what you say has probably helped towards a Top 5 slot, but 'no mas' prevented him ever being first. The 'best fighter ever' doesn't do that. He can't be No: 1...and he isn't.

 

The most popular are very often the ones who can redeem themselves. Robinson was exceptional as a 147lber, but he never would be #1 without regainiong the 160lbs 5 times (and losing it in the ring four times). Ali would not be the same, without redeeming his demons of the late 60s and the first Frazier fight.

Iconic status is always going to be a factor, it is what probably gives most a bias, in what is a premiss that borders on the totally ridiculous:

i.e. I believe a man who weighed 94lbs in 1915 (Jimmy Wilde) is pound for pound better than a 250lb man from the 21st Century (Lewis)...

But hey it is fun, so we carry on doing it

 

That logic doesn't work unless you apply over-the-top weight to redemptions.

I think redemptions are better in/during battle -when a fighter is being outmanned or is outgunned and turns the tide. But reclaiming titles after losing them or reclaiming your reputation after soiling it -only evens the score... it doesn't really enhance it. Robinson losing to Carmen and Gene doesn't enhance his status, strictly speaking.

 

Fair point. Although I think Robinson would have been regarded as #1 if he'd retired after regaining middleweight crown after Olson anyway.

 

Of course taking Hagler the full 15 was a great performance from Duran. I was just trying to best 'legitimate' score for Duran against the other boxers mentioned (see the post I quoted).

 

In this case what has weight got to do with redemption?

To comeback from his demons in New Orleans, to do things Duran did in 83 and 89 is amazing.

Whether they are a factor in making Duran the finest fighter ever, is of course open to a lot of debate, but it certainly does not harm his cause And the fact he was over his prime weight when he did these deeds, adds to them IMO.

 

Page KO1 Ali

 

Hey JohnThomas will tell you that is what happened when they began sparring together in 80/81:yep

 

Oh yes indeed. Trouble is none of them retire on top. Heck, Duran couldn't retire for a decade or more.

 

Duran started off something like Bantam, Robinson lightweight. It's the equivilent of Robinson fighting Bob Foster at 175 and who knows what would have happened. We have to consider Robinson not being up for the fight as Duran often wasn't post Leonard I.

 

Page was doing ok, landed a big right hand and Ali got serious. Onlookers had to remind Ali he was just a kid.