Can A Case Be Made To Place Duran At #1 P4P All Time?

It's hard to envision a 122lb Sugar Ray Leonard moving up a couple of divisions at 30 and not only beating a 24 year old Duran @135 but force him to change his style as a fighter. For example Leonard would be 5-3 135lbs to Duran's 5-7. Basically reverse their roles. I doubt he would be dropping his hands and clowning. Ray Leonard is one of the all time greats but I'm not sure it's a competitive fight. That's what P4P means.

 

But you haven't been able to point out the specifics of what made him a complete fighter, post-Duran I. Leonard giving better interviews, taking certain attitudes and making statements, during pre-fight build-ups, doesn't cut it, I'm afraid.

The victories in Duran (II) and Hearns (I) could be more easily explained by the use of different tactics and different conditions. Given that there's little evidence to suggest that these tactics were not available to him in Duran (I), I see no clear improvements in Leonard, across those fights.

Conversely, Leonard was being out-boxed, in his first fight against Hearns, and had to take aggressive action to come back from behind. This state of affairs does not necessarily support the theory that Leonard was a more complete fighter, just that he took the offensive initiative, at a crucial point in the fight.

 

George Foreman was a great heavyweight but tell me what advantages he would hold over Roberto Duran In a P4P matchup? Maybe the jab? If he used it which wasn't always the case. Even then it's hard not to picture George getting countered to death. Duran holds the advantage or is even in every category. Duran knocked out 10 straight challengers during his lightweight reign. 11 of 12 overall. He didn't just rely on power but power with speed and a slick defense.

Maybe you haven't actually seen films of Duran in his prime years..

 

even there the excuses for Duran. Ray moving up and fighting Duran. And a younger Duran and Ray moving up to middleweight? Ray might still win with his boxing ability and speed. Ray outboxed Duran and outclassed him in 2 fights after the first fight.

 

You don't want to hear me. The variable was Leonard in the 1st and 2nd Duran fights. Ray moved the second fight. And the 3rd for that matter. Ray became a more complete fighter and learned the whole game, and the 2nd Duran and the 1st Hearns fight proved it. It was not about skill it was about following a game plan. And he perfected it, used it against Hagler a little in 1987.

 

I hear you - you're just not understanding how vague, tenuous and contradictory your idea is, given what you should know already about the Hearns (I) bout. Leonard moved? Boxers generally do, if they know what's good for them.

Can you explain to me what you mean by this and, in particular, how this both manifested and demonstrated Leonard to be a more complete fighter, against Hearns, in '81?

For now, I'll stick with the differences in the bouts being due to tactical shifts.

And, there's always more than one "variable" in a boxing match - a lot more.

 

Really? I think Foreman deserves a spot in the 100 personally!!!

It's probably the best researched list ever. History is littered with dozens upon dozens of great fighters. Tho winning the title at a crazy age gets him enormous points the rest of his resume is too thin to figure extremely prominently among the greatest of the greats.

I have no problem with either rating. You can rate him #25 by placing extreme emphasis on his regaining of the title at 45 but you can drop him miles down by gutting it wide open too.

 

yeah but he moved in the 2nd fight he did not in the first, and he was the deciding factor or variable in the fights. Not Duran.

 

Then your definition is on my last post

 

If you say so (again).

I disagree that this was the only variable in the second Duran fight. Too simplistic a view.

What takes away from Duran, despite his brilliance, is not the loss to Leonard but the manner of defeat. It plays havoc with any argument for having him the #1 ATG P4P. Some declare it a brilliant performance from Leonard, on the basis of Duran quitting. I have seen speculation on how it grates on Leonard that Duran effectively handed him the victory. Either way, Duran was a factor.

 

Well you need to brush up on your English.

"And foreman in the 100 is just a joke"

 

You know what i meant

 

Hence trying to have a joke with you.

 

"booted"

Say it ain't so, Joe!