Canelo and GGG

Oh...

And it matters because the reason they are putting off the fight *this time* is so Canela can acclimate to 160.

The fight was supposed to take place after the Khan fight and we had all the drama in the ring after. But now it's another year and a half.

It matters because Canela has the clout. He could have "acclimated" at 160 instead of fighting a WW in Khan. He could literally offer any available 160 fighter in the world now and instead he fights a JMW.

How do either fights help him acclimate to 160?

Look, I normally don't put a lot of stock in what a fighter/promoter/trainer says. I go by what they do in the ring. Canela fought a WW his last fight and is fighting a JMW his next fight. He's not going to fight GGG *unless* GGG shows quite a bit of slippage as he gets older.

 

Golovkin will destroy Alvarez

 

@joeyp130 in most states during a NON TITLE fight both fighters has a grace of 1lb, that's not jumping division just a basic non title fight.

All this back and forth over weight is stupid to me, Canelo fought a JMW at JMW for a MW title sucks but them the facts. In relation to the Smith fight that is dumb you can win a Title above Title weight, if Canelo did come in at 155 or 154.5 nobody would say its a MW fight they'd still call it a NON TITLE JMW bout.

To your last point the main reasons from GB for delaying stem's from Alvarez never competing at MW and GGG not being a big name. Alvarez has never tried fighting a MW and even though I'm not big on Smith or the Khan fight both are vastly better than the majority of cr@p at 160.
I mean Canelo is fighting a World Champ in his division, has beaten the current #1 JMW, and beat the best win for the #2 JMW, could possibly fight an actual MW in Dec an win another title. When he called out GGG he offered to defend at the same weight he won the title at can't hate on that.

Like for all the ducking talk Alvarez if Alvarez beats Smith and say the lesser Charlo for his title in Dec, how would you feel about Alvarez offering the fight at 54 for unified JMW Titles would you still say he's a MW and trying to duck?

 

Not going to respond to all of this..getting ready for work...

If he wins against Smith..then seeks to unify with another JMW..then of course it's a JMW fight.

But that's not the talk is it? The talk now is he will fight BJS after Smith. If that's the fight that happens next, I'll reserve judgement to see if he tries to pull another Canela weight or he fights at the full MW range. Either way, if it's at 155+, it's a MW fight.

Was there or was there not a supposed "agreement" that they would fight each other after the Khan fight?

As far as GGG not being a big name? Really? But Smith is?? Which would do more PPV buys? Canela/Smith or Canela/GGG?


So just an interesting question...why do you think Canela avoids the fight night scales? When was the last time he weighed in on fight night?

Also would be interested in your opinion if he fights BJS next and it's at yet another BS Caneloweight? How do you think that would go over?

 

I doubt bjs would bow to a catchweight , he is a gypsy who doesn't even like making 160 no way will he go to canelo weight

 

I find it humorous that you just assume that if the fight were to take place, that Canelo would attempt to drag him down to 155. Canelo's never fought a real MW thus far, and if he does fight a real MW to get himself acclimated to fighting 160-lbers in preparation for GG as many have claimed, then wouldn’t he want it to be at the normal 160 limit?

The only thing that Canelo won’t do is put his opponent at an advantage *by making himself unhealthy*. He had to do that to get Floyd to fight him, and he won’t do that again, but that doesn’t mean that he wants to drain MWs like Cotto did vs Geale. He’s never done that to an opponent before. It’s been done to him once, thanks to Floyd.

In Canelo's mind, it simply means he won’t agree to a catchweight below 154 ever again, because 154 is the normal limit for JMW, and the lowest weight that he believes he can still make without becoming unhealthy. The whole “Caneloweight” saga was all created by Floyd Mayweather’s need to drain Canelo to 152, because Floyd was scared of fighting Canelo at 154, the normal limit for JMW. Ask yourself, if Floyd didn’t hold that division hostage for 2+ years, don’t you think Canelo would have continued defending his 154 title at 154 like he was before fighting Floyd? Use your brain, and stop buying into the hype.

There’s nothing to suggest that Canelo would try to drain BJS or any other MW. The only reasons he’s been fighting at 155 is because they were either non-title fights where there was no need to make 154 or because his opponents wanted Canelo to agree to 155 because they (Cotto, Khan) didn’t want Canelo weighing more than 155.

This is because Floyd, Cotto and Khan feared Canelo. They feared him and they tried to drain him as much as humanly possible. It’s truly a scaredycat tactic and here you are trying to pin that tactic on Canelo. Those 3 guys did that TO Canelo, and here you are making it out like Canelo would do that to MWs.

If anything you should criticize what Floyd, Cotto and Khan did by needing to force Canelo to agree to a catchweight below the limit to make the fight. Many people here continue to act like Canelo goes around trying to drain people, when in reality that’s what other fighters have done to him. Wake up an smell the coffee. Canelo don’t do shady stuff like that, and any boxing fan should be insulted when posters act like he’s the one who tries to do stuff like that to opponents.

 

:deal

 

"155 or no fight" It wasn't just Steve Fox saying that I heard it out of Oscar's silly mouth as well

 

Cotto...sure..maybe I'll buy that it was Cotto who demanded the 155. But for Khan?? Cmon man..what do you expect when you are dragging up a Chinny WW? If Khan says "155 or no fight" then Canela has the clout, more than any other fighter now to say "Nope".

Canela could have fought literally ANY available top 10 MW for his first defense. At 160. He picked a WW at 155 instead. That is fully on him and GBP. To think CA else had to bow to Khan's demand of 155 is a fantasy.

 

Canelo don't want anything to do with ggg which is a shame after all his fighting talk


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People are missing the point in my opinion.

Canelo can weigh anything from 155-160, Canelo 155 and Golovkin 160 on the scales is still a middleweight fight, it falls in that weight class, it's not Canelo's size or weight that's the problem it's Golovkins.

Canelo and GBP want Golovkin to drain himself, they want him weak, that's the truth of it.

They want brittle jawed welterweights at 155, they want these advantages and obviously feel they need them, so what does that really say about Canelo?

 

Canela supporters believe that 2 fighters fighting at 155 is just the Caneloweight expansion of JMW. That 155 is only MW if a title is on the line.

Apparently only 160 even is a MW fight.

 

Technically, it’s clear that Khan needed it to be 155. (as opposed to 160) In fact, Khan tried to get Canelo to agree to 153 first much like Mayweather did with 152, but since it was a MW Title Canelo said it had to be above 154. (which I think we can all agree a MW title fight should be above 154 lbs)

I’m not blaming Khan for agreeing to 155, in fact I praised that as a good compromise considering Khan was at 147, since it was a MW title I think 155 was the perfect catchweight for that fight. I think you get my drift, that Floyd, Cotto, and Khan each needed Canelo to weigh as low as humanly possible. Clearly each of them WOULDN’T have fought Canelo at the limit of said title. That was my point, that it’s not as if Canelo needed those fights to be at 155. It just so happened that his opponents required him to agree to be as low as possible while still being in the MW division (above 154). *not the other way around* like many have claimed 155 to be Caneloweight, and just assuming that he needs real actual MWs to be 155 for him to fight him. (Oscar may have said that in regard to GG, but that’s Oscar, not Canelo, and that doesn’t mean that it’s fair to just assume that Canelo would actually do that to a real MW like BJS)

He picked the biggest name out there from 147-154. (lets recap, he’s never fought anyone above that weight range despite holding the MW title) He picked the guy that Floyd Mayweather avoided like the plague, a guy in Khan that's a big oversized WW that looks more like a JMW than a WW. I think that selection really had more to do with Khan wanting to fight Canelo and Oscar wanting that fight more than Canelo wanting it. You and may others thought he should have fought a real MW for his 1st defense since he was holding the MW title. Lets remember he won the MW title vs a JMW in Cotto.

Lets not forget how confident and excited Khan was for this fight. Khan wanted to fight Canelo, he wanted to finally be in a Super Fight. It’s not like Canelo was just some bully picking on the nerd with glasses in the crowd like you are making it seem. We know Khan got knocked out badly twice, once a long time ago, but lets not act like Khan was Glass Joe from Mike Tyson’s punch out. Khan definitely has massive skills and became harder to KO under Virgil Hunter. Despite being known as chinny he’s still a hard guy to actually stop. It took a sensational feint and punch by Canelo to do that after 6 rounds of Khan out landing Canelo. It wasn’t an easy fight.

In terms of size Khan matched up well physically with Canelo. Tommy Hearns was a tall lanky welter at one time, but he moved way up in weight to Middleweight, to Lt Heavy all the way up to Cruiserweight by the end of his career. Khan may have been a WW, but lets be real, Khan could probably beat a lot of JMWs or even some MWs out there. Anyone who isn’t top-of-the-sport highly skilled and with real punching power is going to struggle vs Khan due to his speed. He’s a handful for anybody, you pretty much have to knock him out to beat him, which is precisely why Floyd didn’t want to fight him.

You are acting like Canelo selected some tiny undersized nerd with glasses in Khan out of a crowd of bigger fighters and it’s just ridiculous. Khan was a tough opponent for Canelo, at a weight only 8 lbs up from where Khan was. It wasn’t two full weight classes, it was 1 weight class + 1 lb.

Khan said emphatically in an interview that he would not have fought Canelo unless it was at 155 lbs. Khan would not have fought Canelo at 160, or 159, or 158, or 157, or 156. That’s a fact, he’s on record saying that.

 

I see the point you are making, but you’re making some assumptions based off that. In essence I think you’re missing the point that I was making, in that thus far it hasn’t been Canelo that needed to drain his opponents. In fact it’s been the polar opposite. Floyd, Cotto, and Khan for example each needed Canelo to be as low as humanly possible within said weight division.

Floyd wouldn’t have fought Canelo at 154. It had to be a drained Canelo at 152.

Cotto wouldn’t have fought Canelo at 160. It had to be a drained Canelo at 155.

Khan wouldn’t have fought Canelo at 160. It had to be a drained Canelo at 155. (this was more justifiable given that Khan was coming up from WW, but the fact is that it wasn’t Canelo that needed the catchweight, it was Khan)

In between fighting Floyd and Cotto, Canelo had non-title fights where there was no need to make 154 so weighing-in at 155 didn’t matter since there weren't 154-lb titles on the line.

Why is this important, you ask? Because you’re saying that Canelo and GBP want Golovkin to drain himself, they want him weak.

You’re missing the larger point, that Canelo has never done ANYTHING like that to ANY fighter in his past, in fact other fighters have done that to him. (tried to drain him, needed Canelo to agree to catchweights)

You are using the fact that he’s been fighting at 155 and applying that to REAL ACTUAL MIDDLEWEIGHTS, simply because he held the MW title, WHEN in reality he's NEVER fought a REAL MIDDLEWEIGHT thus far, so that logic doesn’t apply!

You’re making the argument that not only GBP, but specifically Canelo wants to drain GG and make him weak. Canelo has never done that thus far in his career, and since he’s never even so much as fought a real actual MW in his entire life, it’s ridiculous to make such a claim that he’s trying to drain and make GG weak when GG hasn’t even come to the table. Maybe Oscar wants the fight at 155, as a negotiation tactic, but that’s different than actually attempting to drain a fighter like what Floyd tried to do to him. (like what Cotto actually did to Geale)

So until Canelo actually drains someone and makes them unhealthy, he shouldn’t be accused of doing that. When in the past fighters have actually done that (i.e. Floyd draining Canelo, Cotto draining Geale, Pac draining Cotto) and we don’t hear so much as a peep out of you criticizing what they did which led to actual wins and losses.

I can’t say what Oscar’s tactics were in negotiations, but Canelo is not a shady negotiator like Floyd or someone who who makes opponents unhealthy like Cotto. I think a lot of times there’s a tendency for fighters or promotors to do onto others what has been done on to them. Like maybe Cotto drained Geale because he could, because Pac drained him, and he felt like he was justified. Maybe Floyd thought he could drain Canelo because he felt like when he fought Oscar, Oscar was the A side and got certain things like the choice of gloves or whatever. So since Oscar was Canelo’s promotor, that was what Floyd felt like he was justified to do.

What I’m saying is Canelo isn’t like that. Canelo isn’t going to drain someone else just because Floyd tried to drain him. And until he does, it’s ridiculous to say emphatically that he wants to make GG weak and is trying to drain him while at the same time giving Pac, Cotto and Floyd a pass for actually doing that and getting wins largely because of it.

Canelo would rather vacate a title in a weight class above his own then try to drain someone to gain an unfair advantage. I think Canelo is doing the right thing, taking care of business at 154, then possibly moving up to 160 fully when he’s ready to take on MWs. He’s doing the right thing instead of doing what Cotto did and if anything he should be praised for it, not being accused of trying to drain a fighter which to me is one of the worst and sleaziest things you can do in boxing, i.e. trying to make an opponent unhealthy!

 

Dude..you said all that but defending Khan as his first defense?

That was a BS money grab cherry pick fight end of story. And we got the result that most predicted. Khan KTFO.

Canela has the clout to have picked ANYONE...almost literally. And he picked a WW..not even a top 5 WW.

If it was always the opponents demanding a lower weight then that is easily solved. Don't fighter smaller guys. If you are the MW champ and weigh in the MW range, then fight MWs. See..i just solved his "opponent's demand" issue.

Would that have worked on Cotto or Floyd? Of course not. Those were big time fights. But Khan??

They wanted one interim fight after Cotto. They got that and choose Khan. Now they want a year and a half to acclimate to 160 and he picks a lightly regarded 154 champ.

2 fights abd he could have fought 2 top 20 class MWs.

He doesn't want to fight GGG...he is scared