Canelo Bivol rounds 1-4 - "close fight" comprehensively debunked debunked

Glad you've debunked the idea that I'm a bot, on the other hand the man love idea is a bit much. You go from one extreme to another.

 

Brother you can't accuse people of having no life then resort to writing essay after essay lol. You also realize you're attacking Q and Exo as well since they've been arguing as well right? This is a boxingforum, it seems like you're just here to make yourself feel better by lashing out on people. You're like a little angry kid. If you're not here to debate, just leave.

 

Correct.

Shoulder and arms are not considered as part of "the body" therefore are not scoring areas, even though they are legal areas to hit.

It's the same area of impact. If the shoulder roll is seen as effective defence, then clearly a punch hitting the shoulder is not a scoring punch.

It will score you no additional points. It's clear what the meaning is here.

Kudos to Shadow, who would rewrite the rules of boxing just to see his flame in the night, Canelo, not lose a fight

There'a an entire thread dedicated to the question here:

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...-credit-for-hitting-on-the-arms.482461/page-3

It's clear: attacking the arms and shoulders is legal. It's also not a scoring shot.

 

Can we clarify something here. @shadow111 if a fighter aims for the shoulder/bicep do you count that as a scoring shot if the other fighter wasn't intentionally blocking it on his arm on purpose?

 

From the side view on the overhead camera it's absurd to describe that as a "jolt". From the DAZN view I could see how it looked more like a jolt to you, this is why the overhead camera is so important, because it gives us another angle to test your theory.

Now you're describing it as "rocking" Canelo's head back which is ridiculously over the top. It didn't jolt Canelo's head back or rock him, it "moved" his head back due to his own glove absorbing the jab with the glove being positioned directly in front of his forehead. The jab hit glove which was resting on his forehead so the glove on glove contact caused his own glove to push back onto the forehead causing his head to "move" back while brushing the punch aside with his glove. It was all a swift blocking motion, absorb the impact with his glove while brushing it aside.

No it doesn't. It hit glove which absorbed the impact while brushing it aside completing the blocking motion. It did not go past Canelo's glove, you have shown no evidence that happened. All we see is it contacting the glove which absorbed the impact, which would explain why Canelo's head moved back slightly. The punch was blocked, it was not a scoring shot.

There was no head jolt. This is your imagination. The head moved back only slightly, due possibly to the impact from the jab hitting glove while resting on his forehead and/or Canelo pulling back himself. Again from the overhead view, see this frame:
https://i.imgur.com/kLGBHTS.jpg
See how Canelo's right glove is resting against his own forehead, upon glove to glove contact, his head "moves" back from glove to glove impact as his glove brushes it aside. There is no frame that shows Bivol's glove directly connecting with Canelo's forehead.

Why would I agree with you that Bivol's jab connected with Canelo's forehead, when we can clearly see it hitting his glove. If Canelo's head was pushed back it was from his own glove being pushed via blocking it. We can only score what we see, which is a jab being blocked and brushed aside.

We can go around in circles with you telling me what you say you see despite no visual evidence of that occuring. Canelo's head moving back, snapping back, jolting back, being "rocked" whatever descriptors you want to use to make it sound bigger than it was, makes no difference, because any such moving back was due to glove to glove contact which was resting against his own forehead as the glove absorbed the impact.

I never "suggested" that Canelo's head didn't "move" back, the question was what caused that to occur, you said it was because Bivol's jab landed which we can't see. So I can't credit something that isn't visible from either angle. All we can see is it hitting glove and being swept aside. It's not a scoring shot, I know you want it to be, but it was very clearly blocked.

 

Amusing question, but this is the sort of thing that you will be engaging in if you try to debate Shadow. I can see the post fight (but pre result) conference where the judges sit down with each fighter and go through the punches asking for each arm shot whether that was a deliberate block or not (of course it was)

 

I need to catch up on your guys debate, I will do so after I catch up on work lmao. I got so drunk on Wednesday, I did nothing yesterday and my client is hounding me.

 

Well I think the issue is really the degree of contact. in the instance that Shadow provides it makes contact after deflecting off the forearm and then shoulder in a scifffing punch.
So no that is not a scoring punch.
Shadow is just trying to win a battlee of semantics when it's really about whether contact made counts or not. the fact he states all punches are different to then try and negotiate his sibmissions shows that he's upto his old "Flat Earth" tricks. Which don't work with us as we've been there before...

 

Lets take it out of the theoretical and into the practical. Lets evaluate Canelo's hard right hook to the shoulder/bicep at the end of Round 1 :

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What do you see here ellerbe? Was this Bivol showing good defense, was this Bivol "blocking" the right hook with his shoulder/bicep or was this Canelo targeting and landing a heavy clean shot? Would the argument be that Bivol was "intentionally blocking it on his arm on purpose" here? This wasn't Bivol doing a shoulder roll folks, it was Bivol absorbing a massive power shot to an area that Canelo inflicted damage upon by targeting the shoulder/bicep and landing a hard flush shot.

So you tell me, would you consider this heavy connect a block or a landed shot? I know what the Canelo haters would say, "you can't count that, it hit his arm ahhhhh". Clearly the shot landed hard and clean to a legal hittable area. If you don't consider this a scoring shot, then what are we doing? Look how Bivol reacted to this shot, you can see Bivol try to move his left glove wider right before it lands but he can't manage to catch it in time before it lands with full force, you can see him cringe then push Canelo off. He clearly tried to block it ellerbe, by moving his left glove wider to catch it but he failed at catching it with his glove in time. Clearly he was trying to block that with something other than his shoulder, his left glove, he failed at intercepting it with his left glove and absorbed the full brunt of that brutal bicep bomb.

 

That's what you're doing with exaggerated descriptors like "jolted" "rocked" "snapped" which from the side view we can see clearly did not occur. From this angle Q :

https://imgur.com/bOWdsW6

You can clearly see Bivol's jab hitting Canelo's glove. There was no head snapping back action here, it was a very slight head movement and only after the jab hit the guard and was being pushed aside. Did it graze his forehead as it was being pushed aside? Did it push Canelo's glove back into his own forehead slightly, maybe it definitely didn't land before hitting glove, and if it did graze his forehead as it was being swept aside which cannot be confirmed on either angle, it certainly didn't have anything on it to which anyone in their right mind would consider it a scoring shot.

You're seeing what you want to see. The jab hit glove and there is no proof in either angle of any part of Bivol's glove landing to Canelo's head.

We can go in circles all day Q, I know you think it landed, it did not jolt Canelo's head back which we can see from the overhead view. Canelo's head "moved" back ever so slightly from either glove to glove impact or *possibly* slightly grazing his forehead as it was being swept aside the latter which cannot be visibly seen or proven from either angle.