Carlos Monzon Versus Roy Jones Jr.

Good Post but Take Care.

 

You too, mate. It's just a forum to debate. We do try to change one another's opinions, that's the purpose of a debating forum.

But there's no brainwashing going on, just an exchange of views and even if people have a different view, as long as they respect yours, it's good to see another take on a fighter that we may not have considered previously. I honestly thought that was happening on this thread, the tongue-in-cheek posting of the Bee Gees being the only dig at those in favour of Monzon and I felt that was done in the right spirit.

Anyway, I've poked my nose in enough on this thread so I'm going to step away from it now unless JT comes back and says that is his wife. In which case I may have to concede that she wasn't the ugliest Bee Gee. That's Robin, all day every day. They're Manchester boys. They breed 'em ugly in Manchester, as I'm sure @George Crowcroft will attest.

 

Take Care, enjoy the site.

 

I wonder if The Bee Gees ever toured Argentina?

Probably would have gotten a draw with the Beatles in a sing-off there.

 

Now, now, Patrick. You've already caused enough trouble for one day.

 

Enough with the ignorance Patricia, your Racism is showing. Maybe Roy Jones Jr in Drag is your pin up choice too.

 

Do you peer at the mantepliece when you are stoking the fire, Edward?!?!?!?! She may have been in danger of being serenaded back in my 20 beer nights so many moons ago. If only i'd had a 40 year prime instead of a 15 year one.

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I know what you mean about the prime. I'm like a 52 year old Larry Holmes. I know what I want to do but the legs (and everything in between) aren't so sure they can go the distance without laying back on the ropes.

On the ropes... never a truer word than spoken in jest.

 

Bravo Richard...I agree completely with you and will not debate the issue any further...at least not in this thread.

 

young griffo, can you cite the name of any other fighter who is judged in part by his out of the ring activities?

 

Excellent post surfinghb!!

 

I'm going to poke my nose in again, and renege on my promise to butt out but I want to defend @young griffo and the stance he has taken.

He's not judging his qualities as a fighter, Michael. He says he is 'a tremendous fighter'. His legacy, as I see it, is about how he will be remembered overall and you have to factor in that he killed his wife.

When you read about Edwin Valero, I bet they mention what happened to his wife and not just about his punching prowess. Articles on Sonny Liston don't focus solely on his ramrod jab and left hook and leave out any mention of his mob ties. Ike Ibeabuchi is not fondly remembered as an excellent prospect without mention of his actions which lead to his imprisonment and career going tits up. Doesn't make any of them lesser fighters but it's evidence that what they did out of the ring affects how they are remembered ie their legacy.

Nobody's picking on Monzon here. I'm going to get this off my chest now. There are quite a few people on this thread who just don't see a special fighter on the film we have - me included - and are citing various factors such as his lack of pace, methodical approach, rigid looking stance and possible lack of high quality opponents in their prime at their natural weight in their evaluation of him but they're having to say that he was obviously great to appease the pro-Monzon crowd who have really thrown their toys out of the pram at times on this thread. It's surprised me how otherwise courteous and respectful posters have reacted to measured and balanced posts whose only crime was to present a different view to their own.

You, yourself, on page 1 predicted an unpleasant thread which you would leave to the 'Neanderthals' and 'the roaches'. You weren't wrong. It's just that as you read through it, all the unpleasantness and vitriol, without exception, has come from those in favour of Monzon.

 

Its amazing right? real easy concept here. in the ring out of the ring .. Thats like saying well Mayweather is the best fighter in History because he made the most money ....and No one had a problem piling on Rich , so I turned the tables a bit .. And always the years or rambling with Monzon being rigid, cant set the pace, did not fight others in their prime when Monzon was 34 and 35 years old fighting Valdez who he was 3 and half years older than him ... His Draws were home town decisions when almost all.. 6 of them were against other Argentine fighters , and 2 of them were in Brazil against a Brazilian fighter AND because they dont understand the scoring system at the time there, .. He cant set the pace even though he would establish the distance .. what is Monzon supposed to do ?? Not use his ATG jab?, Not counter to the body? the cold as ice methodical pace? , etc ... IS he supposed to forego all this and charge in like Lamotta or Mickey Walker and start pounding to the body ?? Would that make him a great fighter ?? Is there some secret formula or recipe or unwritten Boxing rule or code that says all fighters must fight the same way ?? .... I mean it's literally embarrassing

 

surfinghb, THIS is the post of the day....the defining post of the day, which should put an end to this damned thread

 

All I can say is, just read surfinghb's last post...