Chavez sr vs Duran

A key difference would be Duran's intelligence as a fighter.
He was extremely adaptabale, could adjust to damn near anything at 135.

Only fighters in the highest league are beating Duran at lightweight. Ike Williams, Benny Leonard etc. Chavez isn't in that league.

DeJesus was also better than anyone Chavez beat at lightweight.

 

Especially @135

 

That’s weird. When I picked Williams by a hair over Duran 2 weeks ago, I was told “Duran does Everything better than Williams”.

 

That's just foolish. Williams definitely had a better jab, equal or greater power, nasty dog mentality and a high IQ, along with height and length.

Williams was forced to carry several fighters, if I recall. He was so good that fixing a loss at lightweight wasn't believable. Hell, he was the first to beat a (younger) Gavilan.

 

No biggie...I just find the kind of rhetoric that espouses that one great does “everything” better than another great a little bit lazy and genuinely intellectually dishonest.

 

My exact feeling when it comes to Duran. It's all very dishonest and exaggerated.
I'd pick Duran, just. But he isn't better than JCC at everything, IMO JCC has the better chin and threw better combinations.
Beautiful fight, but I pick Duran to do the better work early and mid rounds and JCC to rally. SD written all over this prime for prime at light weight.

 

I get what you’re saying as a general point, but in the case of Duran and Chavez it’s maybe more justifiable because they had similar skill sets. Both tremendous pressure fighters who could wear opponents down with withering body attacks, both had tremendous chins and pinpoint punching power and accuracy.

If Chavez was better than Duran in any one department, it’s not clear to me which one. Chin? Debatable. Body punching? Not convinced. Duran was a little more varied in his attack and had a slicker defense and pound for pound was probably the harder puncher as well.

Don’t get me wrong, I give Chavez every chance in this fight and think it would be tremendous to watch, but I’d pick Duran to come out on top.

 

Why don't you break down in detail what Chavez does better than Duran and throw it up for debate.

 

At 135 Duran was stronger and more powerful. But Chavez had quicker hands and was better defensively.

 

At 135 Chavez had quicker hands, much more accurate puncher, better chin, better head movement, and smarter all around fighter.

People are conflating the 135 Duran with Hagler Duran who was slick and excellent defensively.

 

"DeJesus had been beaten by Cervantes WAAAAAY more convincingly than Duran ever did"? I must have missed Cervantes KOing DeJesus twice then. Looking forward to seeing these 'lost' fights!

 

Nothing new about him. He always has at lightweight.

 

We must be watching different fighters. Neither is a speed demon but both sure aren't slow either. There's be not much between them. "Much more accurate puncher" would just about take Chavez to GOAT status as Duran was a sharp shooter in there. Even when he moved up he was catching guys like Leonard with shots they had no idea were coming. Duran's subtle head movement and rubber necking is some of the best one would ever see. By the time he fully developed at 135 he was as smart as they come within his chosen style.

Both are top tier chins. Duran suffering a couple of flash kd's while never being in any sort of trouble over the time he spent there is top tier for me. Putting on 12 pounds didn't magically make his chin any better and he easily shook off bombs from SRL that did heaps of damage to others. Have a look at his defense in that one too against one of the fastest punchers in history.

Chavez is a great lightweight, no doubt, but Duran is a level above for mine.

After invading America Chavez had what, 3 fights at lightweight? Two top wins in Rosario and Ramirez but it's a small sample. Duran has big longevity at the weight vs all comers.

 

Irrespective of my take in here i would agree Chavez is an underrated technician too. He's a top H2H lightweight.

 

At 135 he was not a sharp shooter he threw more looping shots and theres nothing wrong with that as it was very effective. But he just was not a sharp shooter.

As for Chins. You proved my point Duran got caught with flash KDs, while Chavez never did.

You bring up Leonard why? We are talking about him at 135.

And why are arguing the resume yes Duran obviously has a better resume at 135, Chavez only fought at the weight for 2 years