Chavez sr vs Duran

I like Duran in this one. He was just better at all aspects of the fight game. Power , speed, infighting, defensively, aggression, physical strength, Chin l lean towards Chavez, he fought some serious hitters in his prime and barely blinked. But Duran was overall a better fighter (And this isn't a knock on Chavez, because he was one helluva fighter in his own right) but I feel Duran had a few more tools in his shed.

 

Duran by ud

 

The best Duran beats him but Duran got by often on raw savage skill as a lightweight and Chavez could defeat many versions of that Duran ..

 

Yeah, he certainly had to rely on other facets of his game as he moved up because he lost his natural power advantage above lightweight. Whether that was because he had defensive skills in his arsenal during his lightweight years and didn't need to use them or he developed them after he left the division is debatable. Certainly against DeJesus in their final fight he showed tremendous defensive acumen, though.

 

Go to the top 10 lightweights thread,,,Chavez name is nowhere to be seen,,,there's a reason for that

 

What a reasoned defense.

 

Like the fact that he only fought there for a year lol. You won’t find Duran’s name among great WW’s or MW’s ...wow....just....wow

 

Doggone right. Duran eats JCC up & spits him out.

 

….and yet you think he's going to beat Roberto Duran at that weight?

 

Yes....just like Duran beat SRL at WW, yet SRL is a greater WW than Duran. The pick you make for Duran is fine, but your contrast seems a poor choice

 

I am sorry but this is one of those fights - just like a potential Arguello or Pryor v. Duran things - where I see no scenario where Chavez wins.

Chavez was great, but Duran was the greatest fighter I've seen in my life-time; and nobody below 140 has a chance against the peak Duran.

 

Unless I am wrong (won’t be the first time lol) Chavez never fought over 15 rds, so I am keeping this at 12. I have been reviewing some Duran LW and Chavez SFW/LW fights. I find their strengths and weaknesses to be a good contrast and comparable in many cases.

I am still picking JCC over 12, but a draw might be in the cards but I think it is fair to pick either guy and I can legitimately see Duran winning this even though it is not my pick.

One funny thing is that both guys had difficult moments against south paws, tall rangy awkward fighters with quick jabs and mobility...but neither Duran or Chavez is going to fight that style IMO.

1 Focus/Training I don’t want to pick on undertrained less than focused Duran but if one guy comes in underprepared it would likely be Duran. But I want to look at him at his best in fairness so 10 rounders vs Marcel, Viruet, Dejesus I where he did not look as sharp I did not weigh heavily. Likewise some of Chavez vs Martinez and Lockridge. But I would give an edge to JCC overall in this department but TBF a prepared and trained Duran is a monster.

2 Foot speed and creating angles. I think Duran has this comfortably and his foot speed closing distance and behind a distance closing jab and his feints may be the best in the business. He excels at using his foot speed to create angles of attack as well as to be difficult to catch cleanly is top notch. On the flip side while slower of foot and/or more methodical and systematic in his stalking/pressure style Chavez is very skilled at pivoting and shifting to create similar advantages in attack as well as making him difficult to catch cleanly. Clear edge to Duran

Foot placement and balance- To me this is JCC by a comfortable margin. Duran has a tendency to have his feet out of place leaving him off balance/center Dejesus was able to take advantage of this. While Buchanan (only once lol), Lampkin and Marcel were able to send him to the ropes or almost down (admittedly balance/flash type stuff rather than hurt) without any type of power on those punches. Likewise Duran’s aggressive assaults in some cases would lead him to lunge in for a big blow and that was brutal when it landed, but when he missed he would be wildly off balance and out of position. If he does that against JCC he won’t be moving backwards out of range like Lampkin or Viruet. JCC always seemed aware of his placement and never seemed to get caught off balance (although later in his career I think he had more of a tendency to do so). To me JCC has the better footwork and balance, and if a flash KD occurs Duran is the more likely to be caught out of position.

Start- by this I mean Duran set a good pace tempo right out of the gate, and outside of maybe? 3 JCC fights he gave the first away or was merely content to feel our pace range etc. on the few cases where Chavez did win the first it was when the opponent pressed the action, which Duran will do. However the clear advantage has to go to Duran who more clearly (outside of non title 10 rounders) came out more prepared to go to war out of the gate. Now Chavez might start quicker due to this but I have to think Duran has the edge and likely to be the quicker starter.

Durability/Stamina/endurance/chin I think these are both top notch and wouldnt say either guy has an advantage or edge.

Punch speed/volume/power/accuracy- I combined these 4 because I think they will factor together (in what would make a fun fight). Duran is clearly the faster handed. Duran clearly has the quicker hands (although someone in this thread thinks otherwise lol) and a quick handed Martinez and Laporte were able to have some success early against JCC I have to think Duran will fare well here as well. Volume not only does Duran have the quicker hands but he is a higher volume puncher as well. Quicker hands plus higher punch output will = opportunity. Chavez on the other hand is much more patient and controlled in attack and his accuracy is roughly in the high 60’s sometimes 70 percent range. I think this could lead to lower accuracy for both guys with an example Duran throws 90 and lands 35 while Chavez throws 70 and lands 35 type of close rounds. Power is weird to determine but I feel like Duran has the better single punch power to catch someone with, while JCC lands consistently harder shots.... but both guys styles have a tendency to wear an opponent down...I call this a wash based on the effective contrasts that both guys have a different approach and both excell in their style

To be continued in a minute

 

Part 2

Defense- I think JCC has an edge, not so much because Duran is deficient defensively but rather his high volume pressure leaves him open a little more? Can Chavez or anyone take advantage of this? Not sure but as far as fundamental positioning balance I think Chavez is better. Chavez has a solid bob and weave combined with good hip body movement, and his head movement makes him more difficult to hit cleanly. Inside his right guard high gloves show him picking off punches with gloves arms shoulder at a high rate where his opponents land around 22-28%. Duran is better so I can see Duran having more success. Chavez seems better against the ropes and backing up. Duran does not seem to excell in those spots but admittedly it does not happen to him often. Chavez seems to go to the ropes as strategy not because he is overwhelmed, where Duran (outside of 1 rd in Ortiz) does not seem to drift there a lot. I think Chavez will have better moments in these types of exchanges do to his movement and comfort level, than will Duran although I think Duran will go there less. But I think JCC is better defensively especially at midrange and Duran’s higher volume will make him more open.

@Jel says that Chavez is a sucker for a right? I disagree except later in his career. Duran on the other hand had difficult with balance and getting caught with lefts. He would drop his right in nearly every fight, and/or was slow getting it back up combined with the fact that he was getting ready to throw again let him get caught against Marcel, Ortiz, Lampkin, Viruet Dejesus. Now he was tough enough that only Dejesus and to a lesser degree Lampkin early were able to really land clean and solid both from left hooks and uppercuts inside. And watching JCC his uppercuts from both hands are top notch inside and his tighter defense IMO will lead him to getting hit less by bombs inside than Duran. Can JCC do anything with that or exploit it is another story and open to debate. But I picture Duran getting caught with a left more readily than I do Chavez with a right. Outside of maybe swaying a round or 2 I don’t think it is a major factor as both guys have the chin and the toughness to endure it. But if I am giving an edge defensively it is to Chavez. Better head movement better at picking off shots inside....more due to styles than because of skill IMO

Midrange/longrange
Probably inconsequential? But I think Chavez was better here than Duran both offensively and defensively. I don’t think this will be a jabbing contest so the edge is minimal if it exists at all. Duran’s was quicker Chavez’s was sharper. I do give Duran the edge behind the quickness of it and the feinting largely to close the distance. So while both guys will land jabs I don’t think it will play a major role in the fight.

Infighting- another tough one where I think both guys excell but in different ways. Duran with quicker volume Chavez with systematically harder shots. Duran throwing more and Chavez minimizing accuracy. Chavez landing harder with more accuracy but throwing less...I guess this trench warfare is where both guys excell and will likely determine the outcome....it could be more about what hypothetical judges think than my opinion.

My guess:
Duran wins 1
Chavez scores a flash KD in rounds 2-4 somewhere along the line.
Each guy wins about 4 rounds each, with the other 4 being debatable and me giving the edge to JCC by a hair or by virtue of a flash KD?

I think Chavez over Rosario is as good of a LW as Duran will have faced. I would call it even money but would fall on the JCC side.

Now feel free to beat me up and tell me how wrong I am lol

 

Great couple of posts, Philly. I honestly don't know who would win. My guess is Duran but that's all it is, a guess.

One category you didn't rate is sheer mental strength and tenacity. Prime Chavez was about as stoic a fighter as I can remember seeing. He never seemed flustered, just got on with the job. Duran, on the other hand always seemed flustered and he drew strength from that fury but it would be interesting to see how he fared with such an implacable, technically sound opponent. Would frustration creep in, would he be wild and leave openings, burn up too much energy? Then again, prime Duran proved he could handle the pressure of a superfight, JCC never had a legitimate superfight until Whitaker and that was wen he was starting to fade so that is one to ponder. My guess is he would take it in his stride but, who knows? Interesting questions.

Whatever. Thanks for taking the trouble to share your thoughts. It hasn't changed my guess on who would win but gave me plenty to look out for when i watch both men. All the best.

 

His fight vs Camacho was bigger than the Whitaker fight