Chin, recuperative powers and heart

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Jel, Feb 4, 2023.

  1. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Messages:
    8,053
    Likes Received:
    13,729
    Basilio is an outstanding example of all three qualities.
     
  2. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Messages:
    8,053
    Likes Received:
    13,729
    Great examples, Flo.

    Marquez is top draw in terms of recuperative abilities. He had no right whatsoever to get up after the third KD against Pacquiao, let alone fight his way back with seemingly no ill effects. And he did it time and time again in his career after that. One of his more remarkable qualities.
     
    Clinton and Greg Price99 like this.
  3. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2008
    Messages:
    28,662
    Likes Received:
    14,033
    Fury is really the poster boy for someone who can be knocked down but recovers incredibly well.

    Tyson is a bit on the other side of the spectrum, can take big punches without being hurt but doesn't recover when he is finally chopped down.

    SRL had a good chin but not a true iron chin, but he was hard to finish off. Maybe something similar could be said of SRR, just that he was even harder to finish off.

    Bowe could also be hurt, but difficult to finish off. Same true of Holy, of course.
     
    Pugguy and Jel like this.
  4. Shay Sonya

    Shay Sonya The REAL Wonder Woman! Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2021
    Messages:
    4,085
    Likes Received:
    10,047
    From watching film of his fight against Max Baer, I would say that Primo Carnera fits in here.
     
    Pugguy and Jel like this.
  5. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2014
    Messages:
    10,928
    Likes Received:
    6,810
    Duran

    Chin= Great (except for Hearns)
    Recuperative Powers= Great (except for Hearns)
    Heart= Great (except in Leonard 2)

    Thomas Hearns

    Chin= Average
    Recuperative Powers= Poor
    Heart= Great

    Muhammad Ali

    Chin= Great
    Recuperative Powers= Great
    Heart= Great

    Larry Holmes

    Chin= Good
    Recuperative Powers= Great
    Heart= Great
     
  6. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    17,852
    Likes Received:
    28,965
    No, I brought known facts to the table. Your point hasn’t been proven. Did you miss the vid of Hatton himself saying Kostya didn’t quit? Hardly being overly defensive of Tszyu. As to calling in other fights - different and less affording refs-, also ignoring timelines and relative ages involved. It seems the claim itself - that Tszyu quit - is bambi in itself - in so far as the reaction to factual counter and trying to protect it from same
     
  7. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    5,103
    Likes Received:
    5,245
    I could respond to that nonsense but we’re going off topic here.
     
  8. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    55,226
    Likes Received:
    49,555
    Beautifully put mate. Great thread too!
     
    Jel and swagdelfadeel like this.
  9. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    17,852
    Likes Received:
    28,965
    Oh gee, you actually did just respond - to say absolutely nothing but that my reply was nonsense. What I've written makes complete sense and is backed by the facts. I see you can't break down nor support your claims with relevant facts. You're just sufficiently emotionally driven to make hollow, knee jerk comments. By all means, stay on whatever you think the topic is - rather than what you've offered "off topic" so far - then I don't have to waste my time on anymore fluff comments.
     
  10. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    5,103
    Likes Received:
    5,245
    My word, my point is proved you’ve now went off on two almighty rants because I’ve hinted at criticising Tszyu.
    What fact have you brought to the table that his corner stopped it and Hatton agreed they did?
    When did I dispute that? My point is Tszyu was happy with that, his whole demeanour at the end was happy with that.
    I have the utmost respect for Kosta Tszyu as a fighter and a man, but I can think of many fighters who wouldn’t have accepted the stoppage as easily as that in fact they would have had to be dragged out of there.
     
  11. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    17,852
    Likes Received:
    28,965
    My word, you haven't proven any points. Falsely and ridiculously describing my due replies as going off on "two almighty rants" doesn't cut it and clearly has not been the case. You're simply baulking at fact-based replies to your unsupported claims, trying to imply that they are some sort of oversensitive reactions. Lol, no. I deal in FACTS. It's not even "off topic", you only deemed it to be so after you threw in your own 2 cents worth.

    Hatton further qualified that Tszyu wouldn't quit UNLESS his corner called it - another noteworthy omission on your part. I could guess that you weren't even privy to the Hatton IV. Did Frazier want to quit in Manila? Of course not. Did he have to be dragged out of there? A second, of course not. Same goes for Holmes vs Ali. At any rate, you don't even know if you're coming or going on the subject. You're just wasting time with half-baked assertions.
     
  12. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2017
    Messages:
    8,053
    Likes Received:
    13,729
    Felix Trinidad:

    Chin = Poor (early in fight) / Average or Good (rest of fight)
    Recuperative powers = Great
    Heart = Great

    The Hopkins fight wasn’t a reflection of a lack of recuperative powers, it was more like death by 1,000 tiny cuts.
     
    Clinton and Pugguy like this.
  13. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    17,852
    Likes Received:
    28,965
    I'll say one thing - it might be seen as a curse for those possessed of an iron chin who are also less than adept in terms of defense OR the owners of iron chins whose advancing age has made them more hittable. They stand to endure far more punishment and have their hearts tested far beyond the limits experienced by the average bear fighter - average bears who are mercifully put out of their misery much earlier.

    Jess Willard is a perfect case in point. Ultimately, he had to save himself - the ref Ollie Pecord and Jess's own corner weren't about to. And while Jess ultimately quit on his stool - there aren't many fighters who have been taken to the same threshold of pain and suffering. Dempsey's fierce attack likely would've put his own good self "out" well before the time it might've seen Jess on the deck, absolutely unable to rise again.
     
    George Crowcroft likes this.
  14. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2015
    Messages:
    5,103
    Likes Received:
    5,245
    Frazier was beat up, Ali was a shell totally different scenarios, Tszyu walked over to Hatton smiling.
    What facts have you proved other than saying his corner stopped it?
    The fact you’ve responded like you have when all I said was I think Tszyu received a pass has simply confirmed my opinion.
    You need to calm down.
     
  15. Pugguy

    Pugguy Ingo, The Thinking Man’s GOAT banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2021
    Messages:
    17,852
    Likes Received:
    28,965
    Ah Cec, you're still talking a false game. I'm perfectly calm. The fact that I merely responded (duly and with facts in support), period, has you clearly ruffled and needing to project your own lack of calm on to me. Do you even remember what you said? - "Tszyu seemed happy to quit." So now, what you're saying is: all I have proven is that Tszyu didn't quit, his corner stopped it? Golly gee, all I've proven is that your original statement was absolutely false. Silly me. And obviously it's not all I've proven since, the analogies I provided hold perfectly. Respond "like" I did? Responding at all to your claim(s) and refuting them via simple facts has been the real problem. Yours, not mine. You haven't proven any points, but I have completely proven mine. I will peacefully, without malice, leave you to sort out your own perturbed disposition....