He certainly never landed the perfect right hand such as the one that despatched Duran from his senses. Landed some good ones, but not his absolute Sunday best.
Welcome to the board My2Sense. What if the question was who is harder to stop? Under the context of the question defense, stamina and heart come into play. Here I believe Cobb is superior to Chavalo. Would you agree that Cobb is harder to stop?
I also read in an old boxing magazine (might have been KO or Boxing '89) that Hagler said that the 2 best fighters he ever faced was Duran and Hearns and of Hearns he said, "that guy can whack!" He didn't say whether Tommy was the hardest puncher he faced but I think it's clear that Tommy got his attention in the opening 30 seconds of that first round.
You're bum**** nuts if you think LaMotta had the greatest chin of all time. Methinks you need to dig into more obscure fighters.
No I wouldn't actually. I could easily see a prime Frazier or Foreman stopping Cobb the exact same way.
I doubt Frazier could stop Cobb as quickly as he did to Chavalo. That to me is a real reach. Maybe an " on " Foreman could stop Cobb quickly. There would be a chance of Cobb pulling off an accidental rope a dope to Foreman. Cobb wasn't bothered by Shavers much, and took some clean flush shots from Holmes. IMO, Cobb was a tad harder to stop than Chavalo. The two best punchers Chavlo meet stopped in rather quickly. If Chavalo was a durable and tough as legand says, these results are odd.
Watch the punches Chuvalo took from the young monster hitting Foreman. anyone else would have been floored.
Like who? Like Marion Wilson. Like Joey Maxim. Fighters like Marion Wilson had nothing but their chin to carry them through. LaMotta was skilled, ring savvy and had a huge size advantage over quite a few fighters he fought. As for what disqualifies him? Lamotta was stopped three times. Four if you want to get into the Fox pissing game. Not stunned, not buzzed, he was stopped. No shame in getting stopped by Robinson, he also stopped iron chinned fighters like Fullmer. But the fact remains that he was stopped, at completely different times in his career. And you know what? Carmen Basilio was a welterweight. A legitimate welterweight. Not a drained LHW fighting middleweights like LaMotta. A natural 30 pounds less then Lamotta if not even more and he went 30 rounds with Robinson. Consider most of LaMotta's matches with Robinson were 10 rounders and the one 15 rounder they had Robinson stopped him. Basilio managed that feat twice, as in going 15 rounds with Ray. Again, you're ****ing crazy if you don't think the P4P equation should factor into what a great chin is and isn't.
Is that neceassarily a mark against Chuvalo? In other words, it took the best punchers Chuvalo fought to stop him quickly. Cobb has been stopped quickly too, but not by the best punchers he's fought. As already said, Shavers was shot when he fought Cobb. While he was still a dangerous puncher, his punches appeared to be losing some of the power and sharpness that they had in his prime. Bernardo Mercado had survived the same barrages of punches before that, and he certainly wasn't "unknockoutable". Standing up to Holmes' punches for 15 rounds is equivalent to standing up to Ali's for the same distance, plus Chuvalo went another 12 rounds with Ali when Chuvalo was definitely past his prime. In general, Chuvalo has fought waaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyy more elite fighters in his career. In addition to Ali (twice), Foreman and Frazier, there was also Doug Jones, Jimmy Ellis, Quarry, Terrell, Bonavena, Patterson, etc., etc., when all were still considered good live contenders. By contrast, Cobb fought Holmes, Douglas, and Dokes, and Norton and Shavers when both were nearly used up, and that's pretty much it. And after getting stopped for the first time in his career, he was content to fight at the clubfighter level for the rest of his career, whereas Chuvalo continued to fight at the top level after both stoppage losses and even when past his prime.
Cobb was stopped quickly when he needed to flop down to collect money for coke. Shaver's wasn't shot when he fought Cobb and it'd ridiculous to say he was. Past prime, definitely. Useless? Negative. Last thing to go is power and Shaver's was THE numero uno power punching in HW history. He still had that power against Cobb and he ate everything he had without a problem. I really don't see how you can watch that fight, with Cobb being hit so hard his entire body is being spun around like some kind of cartoon and say his chin isn't one of the best of all time.
Also, Chuvalo wasn't half as hard to hit as Cobb. No doubt Cobb took more punishment in 15 then Chuvalo ever did against Ali. Ali took more damage then Chuvalo probably did during that fight, regardless of losing the fight. Chuvalo's bodywork had Ali pissing blood. Cobb had zero head movement going for him. Chuvalo was more skilled then most give him credit for, and that's another thing that needs to be factored into chins.
I guess that undoes your point about Joey Maxim, who had even more skill/savvy than LaMotta, yet was stopped in one round by Curtis Sheppard and was down several times against Bobo Olson, who he had a huge size advantage over and was never a big puncher to begin with anyway. What about all the fights in which LaMotta didn't have a "huge size advantage"? What about the fights in which he was in fact the smaller man? What about the fights in which he was the smaller man and basically shot, but still demonstrated an iron chin? When did Marion Wilson ever stand up to the extended horrific punishment from the P4P greatest fighter ever that LaMotta did in his last fight with Robinson, even just in the last 3 rounds? Why should that "disqualify" him? There's a lot of reasons for fighter to be stopped, chin is only one of them. In none of those fights (even when he was floored by Nardico, when well past his best) was his chin the reason he was stopped. You're not even looking at what he showed in his fights at all, you're just looking at figures on paper and making an assumption. And even then, it's still a questionable assumption. And you know what? Robinson was a faint echo when he fought Basilio compared to what he had been when he stopped LaMotta. LaMotta stood up to even more punishment against a much younger Robinson than Basilio did against a much older and badly faded Robinson. Not only are you only looking at figures on paper, but you're just cherry picking your facts on top of that. What about the fact that Basilio has been down against both Fullmer and Pender, or sent wobbling all over the ring by Tony DeMarco in his prime weight at 147? At the same stage in his career that Basilio was being floored by Fullmer and Pender (neither of whom were considered great punchers at middleweight), LaMotta was standing up to vicious punishment from Bob Murphy (considered among the hardest hitting light-heavies never to win the title) in two fights and not going down, and even managing to win one of those fights? So what do you have to say about hard hitting light-heavy Bob Murphy's failure to floor an already shopworn LaMotta in two tries? What about the fact that LaMotta walked through Bob Satterfield's best punches and stopped him, with Satterfield being among the P4P hardest hitting fighters in history?
Whether his chin is one of the best of all time isn't the question. It's whether it was the best, or at least better than Chuvalo's. And no, and I wouldn't look at that one fight and say his chin was better than Chuvalo's, at least not with any certainty.
Your posts are made up in large part to assumption, before you slap that label onto me. Robinson is the consensus greatest fighter of all time, instantly giving your argument tons of credibility right off the bat, right? Oi'. Way to leave these points debatable and up for discussion. LaMotta standing up to Satterfield is in my opinion his best durability showing by far, but to be honest I think it's got next to nothing on Maxim going a combined 45 rounds against Archie Moore at the very end of Maxim's career. As in Archie Moore the heavyweight killer. Power AND precision. Lasting 7 against Satterfield is one thing, going 45 against Archie Moore is another, even not counting Satterfield being one of the times ultimate hot and cold performers. Great, LaMotta fought on until he was shopworn but at that point he folded. His chin gave out. Maxim's did so less times then LaMotta, while having more career fights then him AND a few hundred more rounds fought then him. In my opinion that's a recipe that shows me his chin was better then LaMotta's. Also, Maxim's chin took Satterifeld's just fine as well. And the Curtis Shepard match? Sandwiched in-between that stoppage was Maxim twice going 10 rounds against Shepard and winning, not to mention that being in the very, very beginning of Maxim's career.