Cleveland Williams vs Leon Spinks

Ali made him an offer?

Leon had serious ability. Enough ability to get past an old champion Shavers and Norton still couldn’t beat. Nobody can take that away from him.

Nobody gave Leon that title. He fought live fighters most of his career and still finished with a winning record.

 

The spell of Ali is so bewitching that one can convince themselves he lost to a 7-0 fighter who went on to achieve exactly nothing thereafter. It’s simply too unpleasant to believe Ali rigged the whole affair to make himself the first three-time champion in history.

The stink on those fights can be detected on the moon.

 

I would back Mercado and Ribalta to beat Williams too

 

That isn’t true. Leon did beat good fighters afterwards. Eddie Lopez, Evangelista and Bernardo Mercado were all riding high when Spinks fought them. He lost to none of them.


A while ago a great poster made a thread about lineal ranking system of the entire heavyweight division. Whereby legitimate career records where used to trace only the “man who beat the man” for each initial ranking position among contenders and Leon Spinks fared so much better within his record than ever previously been credited for. This being that, percentage wise, Leon beat mostly guys who beat “the guys who beat the guys” rated within this lineal ranking system when he won and lost mostly to more legit fighters within it than those who did not qualify.

The author, boilermaker, had this to say: “
always thought Leon Spinks just completely lost it after the Ali fight, and obviously he did a bit, but it interesting that every fighter he lost to seemed to keep winning and holding their rankings. I think his career (outside of Ali) was nowhere near as bad as i had previously thought.”

 

He never accomplished anything or went on to be a force after those fights. That’s an objective fact. He was a pawn on the chess board of Ali’s ego stroke, but a well-rewarded pawn. The most illegitimate & undeserving champion in division history. Quite possibly, in Boxing history.

 

"Being very generous" but neglecting the fact that he was shot. OK Chok

The best guys he faced in his prime were Liston, Terrell, Machen, Daniels, Miteff, Rischer, and Holman.

His record against them is 6-3-1.

So we face four knockdowns in his prime, against a H2H monster in Liston. Two knockdowns when he was green. And 9 when he was shot (literally).

Must explain why he has double the votes that Spinks does.

He'd also at the minimum smash Willard, and probably Carnera.

 

Clevelands record reads 15-11-1 against real fighters. Everything else was phoney. That’s 26 real fights from 94.

check boilermakers lineal ranking system to see where Williams ranked in the real scheme of things.

Leon Spinks ranked #10 for the decade 1970s and as high as #20 overall even for the 1980s based on who he fought and when he fought them.

 

Ìs clobbers the same as flattening?

 

Norton was considerably earlier so not the same Ali and most had him winning.

Spinks also lost to Coetzee in one round

 

In order to be a top 10 70s heavyweight he would have to be ahead of
Holmes
Foreman
Ali
Weaver
Coetzee
Norton
Frazier
Young
Lyle
Tate
Among others

Not at all clear he makes the list

 

you need to look at the thread and understand the criteria. It’s all very well explained.

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/lineal-rankings-system.239445/

 

That was no disgrace considering the prime performance by Coetzee who proved to be one of the major players of the coming decade. It’s not like Leon was blasted by some nobody. Coetzee was a stadium fighter. Remember Joe Frazier was demolished by Foreman and Patterson demolished by Ingo. It happens.

 

God himself couldn’t win a decision against Ali after Zaire. I have a rock that keeps away tigers to sell to anyone who believes a 7-0-1 fighter who became a nobody in the division legitimately beat Ali, & beat him on points.

Ali could not shut up about being the first three-time champion in the lead up to the return fight. I wonder why…

 

I get where you are coming from with this statement. It’s true, Ali had reached a stage where he could barely convincingly win at world level…it’s not like he was winning anymore but he wasn’t losing either. Against Leon he lost. And that’s significant. Norton and Shavers couldn’t do that.

That last round against Ali in their first fight, Leon beat a fighter trying to win and Ali always won the last round. Spinks had to be good enough to that.

 

If you believe it, you believe it. I certainly don’t expect to change anyone’s mind. But I look at those fights & can only laugh.