Consensus pound-for-pound greatest

That would be like saying James Toney's wins over Dominick Guinn or Rydell Booker are bigger achievement than beating Nunn or Jirov, just because Guinn/Booker are bigger and probably would beat those other guys if put in the ring with them.

Besides, given that Walcott and Ketchel both fought and beat HWs themselves, and no one knows how good guys like Wills really were at the time Langford beat them, I don't think it's clear cut how they would compare to each other in "real terms" anyway.

 

We can put it to the test if you want.

Give me a list.

Yeah, I would question that as well.

It is easy to miss the true depth of Langford's resume at a glance.

What about beating Tiger Flowers while shot and technicaly blind?

Jeff Clark was probably better than any middleweight Robbinson beat.

I could give you some more names at that weight.

 

Those are two pretty wild and unsubstantiated claims.

Clark was never considered more than just a good contender in any weight class he fought in.

Wills was only a rising prospect (at best) at the time of Langford's wins over him - and the reason he got to be a prospect in the first place was because Langford lost to him. At that time, he was still struggling to distinguish himself from fading ex-contenders like McVey and Jeanette.

Johnson was generally suspected of being on the decline by the end of 1913 when he drew with Battling Jim, but guess what? - Wills didn't fare any better against the same opponent. In fact, he outright quit to him.

 

My2Sense on the rampage.

 

My vote goes to Sam Langford.

 

In 1916 when a 33 year old Langford kod a 27 year old Wills in 19rds, Wills was the reigning Coloured Champion and had 33 fights.

 

No, he only had a disputed claim to the title. Jeanette was also recognized as the champ at the same time, and in fact had been recognized for longer and appears to have had a stronger claim.


In reality though, the real Colored HW champ was Jack Johnson, who was recognized as such prior to winning the world title and had never been beaten for it. Black contenders (many of whom, ironically, had already lost to Johnson) liked to randomly "claim" that title as a means of marketing themselves. Colored HW title "claims" were passed around among black contenders like hot cakes.

 

Well Johnson was still heavyweight Champ so you could say he was coloured champ too ,as you say he was never beaten for it.
Who did Jeanette beat for it ? He drew with Langford and Wills about that time .
But my point was that Wills was not a green kid at the time Langford kod him he was a premier heavyweight.

 

gans didn't prepare properly for that fight. still a good win, though.

 

I'd love to see a list like the first two for Ezzard Charles.

Eh, Mannassa?

 

Armstrong
Fitz
Robbie
Greb
Langford
Charles
Walker
Moore

Those 8 are set in stone for me. The first 5 are pretty much interchangable, the last three not so much.

 

Thank you.

Your a good man.