I’m giving a dog his bone otherwise I’ll be debating how a 250lbs SHW didn’t hit as hard as Young using a diagram and clip presentation of Foreman’s reactions to JY’s punches compared to Bowe’s reactions to AG’s punches lol.
Yeah, the small fact that Foreman actually won the slug out/fight against Lyle is often over sighted.
A rusty Foreman didn’t participate in a legit fight for 13 months prior to his comeback fight vs Lyle. It was hardly prime Foreman. This is a FACT that can’t be dismissed. The Toronto 5 circus doesn’t count - if it counted for anything, it revealed a disturbed, lost Foreman, still mentally scarred by the Zaire loss - I believe that even commentator Howard Cosell made the same observation re Foreman, more or less. There was clearly something “up” with George.
Not to mention it was a fundamentally very different and inferior Foreman due to shifts in body mechanics by the well meaning Clancy, as well as loss of confidence. Oh and this was his first fight in over a year.
Lol, Part Time Duran was what first came to my head but it's a bit clunky. I think Schrödinger's Duran is more accurate. Existing in a state of caring and not caring about a fight simultaneously until the fight is over and you can observe the result Anytime Duran wins a fight it's because he cared enough to win and it should be counted towards his greatness, but anytime he loses it's because he didn't give a ****, and it shouldn't be counted against him, because if he really wanted to win, he would have.
You need to understand “Ring Rust” it’s just a buzz word we hear too much… it is real for novices but it comes off in hard sparring for a champion or an established pro… for the experienced guys you’re getting your timing down, weight right and used to being hit again in the camp - you’re already developed to use your skill set in a real fight and have been tested against good opponents. Frequent fights are required for prospect pros (See Tyson’s early years same with Toney) in your first ever spar you will remember and do very little of what you were trained / taught to do on the pads… fighting is the same when you compare it to sparring… one thing to do it in sparring another in a fight, another again against a good opponent that’s why Toney attributed McCallum with making him a better fighter he didn’t learn anything new in the ring, he got the chance to apply all of his skills in a real environment you can’t do that on bad opponents you need someone good to “unlock” things for a lack of better words But once it’s “unlocked”… “Before McCallum I was just runnin’ in on everyone, but he made me slow down and think for the first time.” - JT “I learned how to be elusive without running around the ring by fighting Mike McCallum three times.” - JT A real pro can fight once a year much like Canelo has and like Foreman here whilst not losing a step to “ring rust” I’ll repeat myself again “for the experienced guys you’re getting your timing down, weight right and used to being hit again in the camp” you don’t get to call it a comeback after a year off or say they’re rusty because they didn’t have a keep busy fight against Johnny Paycheck there sparring partners (as a former HW champion no less…) are usually better then that guy lol.
@greynotsoold Scroll up you’ll enjoy this post I reckon as the ghost of Archie Moore correct me if I’m wrong here… @Pat M and @cross_trainer you might like this to, Pat M we’ve come to the same opinion on this with Ali right? I think you’d agree here given the context etc.
Imagine being so insecure you need to tag THREE posters for vindication. I’ve been here 11 years and this just might be the most pathetic thing I’ve ever seen here.
I’m not denying he could fight on the inside, but he was much better at long and mid range, Lyle was better specifically at close range chest to chest at shortening up them bodyshots, slipping in tight and short uppercuts etc. I’m not even saying Lyle had better bodyshots, uppercuts or punch selection, he didn’t, I’m saying he’s better at shortening them up when right up close. If Liston’s gonna beat Foreman, it’s gonna be by keeping the solid jab in his face and punishing him with rights when he steps too far forward and sitting down more as Foreman wears out and selecting his combinations with precision from a good distance (long range for the straight punches and go into mid range for the bodyshots and uppercuts, then get right back out).
Imagine following someone around online just to cry about them for literal years… let it go no one cares, no one has ever cared that much. By now you’re literally defined by your cartoonish hatred of me the way Mendoza was with McVey… when people see you post they probably just think of me by now lol.
Also again imagine being so insecure you publicly complain and tag others when people “like” certain posts you disagree with the irony, it’s just fictional boxing relax.
Yeah; unless someone wants to commit the One Foreman Fallacy, where 70s Foreman achieved all the stuff 90s Foreman did, the problem is that there just isn't much evidence for the cliche that nobody can come forward and slug with young Foreman. Young Foreman only fought a true puncher his own size in a slugfest once. Foreman won after getting bounced off the canvas himself. That's actually still somewhat impressive, since Lyle won a similar brawl against Shavers. But it's way too little to say that young Foreman is therefore impossible to outslug. Young Foreman only did it to one other puncher of his size. And almost lost.
Again, you leave out small things like the details ... Foreman was not just coming off the longest layoff of his young career but also a devastating loss and was matched against a very, very hard punching , hard hitting man that had zero fear of him .... not an ideal comeback opponent and it was a comeback when you add the longest time between bouts in his career with the psychological damage of the huge upset loss in front of a world wide audience.