Could frazier beat tyson?

50-50

Tyson has the best chances up to round 6th

From round 7th on Frazier's chances improve significantly

Unless Tyson stops Frazier in the early rounds, this fight will be decided by stamina and willpower, and we all know who has the upper hand in those areas :hey

 

Frazier would be up against the odds for sure but I would not dismis his chances out of hand.

Tysons style depended to some extent on his oponents trying to keep him at range or working at his mid range. Although he worked inside his oponents optimum punching range he was not technicaly an infighter. It would be interesting to see how he would have fared if Frazier started piling on the pressure inside.

There are definitely a few unknowns here.

 

going toe to toe with Tyson will get you knocked out.

 

I don't give Frazier much of a chance in this matchup.

 

To believe peak Frazier could never beat peak Tyson requires a questionable leap of faith, considering the heart and will displayed by a pre and post prime Smoke in less than top condition.

Although Joe wasn't usually at his best in the first round, he wasn't as slow a starter as he was commonly stereotyped to be (even during his peak). Granted, Dave Zylgewicz and Terry Daniels were not worthy challengers, but he took 13 seconds to drop Ziggy for the first time in his career before taking him out, sent Daniels to the deck in round one, and only the ropes saved Manuel Ramos from a first round knockdown. Jerry Quarry launched nearly a hundred punches in the first round of their title fight, but Joe replied with about 65 of his own, not exactly a snail's pace start for a heavyweight. Tyson would be dealing with very active resistance from the outset.

Foreman was and is a physical freak of nature whose height and reach advantages over Frazier would not be shared by Mike. Stander tried forcing Joe backwards like George did, but Ron didn't have the size to avoid Frazier's punching range in doing so. (It's also useful to remember that both Stander and Foreman got him after the FOTC.)

Uppercuts were a standard recipe to try on Joe, but they often only served to wake him up, and his vulnerability to them has been somewhat overemphasized. Bonavena initially face planted him with a right cross, and the second knockdown was largely from the residual effects of that initial bomb. Still, with the majority of round two remaining, and the three knockdown rule in effect, Ringo couldn't do it again. (Frazier didn't survive by clinching or running, but by moving inside and covering up tightly, effectively smothering his attacker.) Let's not forget that Joe wasn't all that experienced at the time either. At the time, he'd never been past six rounds. Oscar held a 12 round decision win over Peralta, and was coming off a ten round decision over Chuvalo. Ringo was a ballsy step up in class for Smoke. Ali hit Frazier with numerous uppercuts, but only stunned him seriously with a right cross late in the second round of their middle fight.

Tyson could certainly drop him early, but Joe would always bounce up. Mike's peek-a-boo defense would not protect him from Frazier's hooks downstairs. As for Joe's own ability to withstand body punishment, he took plenty from Quarry in their first fight. Tyson might be extremely well served by having the three knockdown rule in place. Otherwise, this can become a test of wills which would always favor Frazier.

Mike wasn't as outstanding an infighter as a heavyweight of his stature might be supposed. Joe might have been the finest of them all. Tyson's high profile wins were primarily at the expense of taller and longer armed heavyweights. Frazier was more familiar with world class opponents of similar stature. Bonavena, Machen, Chuvalo, Jones and Quarry were all prominent veteran contenders who were no more than six feet in height. Joe could even get under shorter men than himself, as he demonstrated with Ziggy and Stander.

Even as early as his decision win over Mitch Green, at least one ringside boxing scribe asserted that Tyson's punching power was more comparable to Frazier than Foreman. (I forget who this professional eyewitness was, but it was somebody who saw all three in their primes.)

Consistent pressure would be more critical than the impact of a singular blow, and that was more Joe's forte.

Who would win isn't the question being posed here. Whether or not it would be impossible for Frazier to prevail is, and I think's it's entirely within the realm of possibility that Joe could come out on top.

 

Not a chance! Fraziers style would play right into tysons hands because it was his style to take three punches to land one. I can't see him avoiding tysons bombs because they were the same height, which would theoretically mean that frazier couldn't consistently duck under tysons punches. In fact, the opposite would happen. He would end up ducking into the punches which would double the impact of the punches which would be delivered with great speed. Tysons uppercuts and hooks would easily find their mark.

Frazier was a top 10 heavyweight imo but hie aggressive style and bravery would get him nearly killed. He wouldn't last much longer than his son did, defintely within 3.

 

In my opinion he would have little chance.

Many cite intangibles like "heart" when going for Frazier whilst usually subscribing to the myth that anyone who lost to Tyson lost out of fear.

Horrid style match-up for Frazier. Slow starter v fast starter.

And, whilst Frazier showed durability he would not survive a constant onslaught from a puncher like Tyson.

Sorry Joe, but I have Tyson early.

 

Indeed, I would qualify my opinion by adding that if my guess is wrong about how the first three rounds play out, then the fight goes in favor of Frazier.

 

I don't think a lack of fear on Frazier's part would be as important as Tyson's tendency to lose composure and get discouraged. The outcome of this one would be determined after the opening bell, not before. And unlike Norton, Joe didn't freak out when hurt. How would Mike respond when Smoke kept coming on, no matter what?

 

Not well.

I simply do not think that Frazier's composure or sense of will can help him against such a powerful onslaught.

Many are quick to point out that Foreman is more of a raw power puncher than Tyson (which I agree with - I put quite a few above Tyson in terms of raw power), but he is no slouch and he is a more effective puncher early on in a fight.

And if Tyson lands a power shot at the perfect point on the head (which could be anywhere), Frazier will not be conscious to keep his composure.

 

I'm not sure if Frazier's style would play into Tyson's hand as it did to Foreman's. Tyson was never one to push around his opponents like Foreman would, happily accepted clinches and actually gave ground to Buster Mathis Jr although it was a post-prison Tyson.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5IySCdqoHXM

Frazier would likely try to smother Tyson's attack and work the body.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS7MaE99GBs

Against Buster Douglas I noticed that Douglas had a lot of success roughing Tyson up. Tony Tubbs also came in with a gameplan of fighting on the inside and had some success with it until feeling Tyson's power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vJ2JG5SAfI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-z3z0tTcUEs

Tyson could still be dangerous even against the ropes with his uppercut.

 

TheGreatA:

I agree that if Frazier had the correct game plan (smother, tie-up and put him on the back foot), and if Tyson was willing to accept the clinches, then Frazier's chances of surviving the early rounds would improve dramatically.

 

Although I agree with you I think that you downplay Frazier's slip/duck defense ability per se, however Frazier does have a tendency to just brawl. In this case I think it's his chin and not mind/heart that won't hold up against Tyson. The Tyson of Lewis doesn't beat him though. But a prime Tyson does. I just don't think Frazier would or could come up with a gameplan to beat Tyson. Terrible style matchup.

 

True enough. Mauling, clinching and otherwise manhandling were key dirty tactics of both Ali and Foreman, something that can't be overlooked when considering Frazier's professional defeats. Peak Tyson was a relatively clean fighter on the other hand, something which might handicap him with Joe (also a clean fighter for his style, as Mercante mentioned in his autobiography).

 

In a sense I agree with you that you couldn't just survive with Tyson but had to come up with the right game plan to fight him back and beat him. You can't just fight back and win and Frazier does this. Can he fight in any other way? Would he? I don't think so... in fact I think his management team ducks Tyson. But seriously, I do think you overestimate Tyson's psyche. A lot of those guys didn't want to fight back, a lot of them were intimidated. Those who fought back generally did better and those who fought back with the right gameplan generally one. Frazier doesn't have that gameplan but it's not impossible for him to out-will him... I could see it.

Even Teddy Atlas said a guy in the gym Tyson was busting up on had a bloody nose and didn't want to quit. When Tyson saw that he almost wanted to quit.

Do you really believe that? BERBICK not afriad of Tyson?!? Tubbs, Thomas, Tucker, and Biggs were all afraid of Tyson. I'll give you Ruddock and I'll give you Botha for the toughness he showed.

Excellent point that I hadn't factored in enough. Tyson didn't like being smothered, or frankly Tyson didn't really like fighting inside. He wasn't an inside fighter and he accepted clinches. He was weirdly uncomfortable with it. And Frazier loved the pressure. Tyson was a mid-range assaulter, but could back up Joe and employ those devastating combos? How long can Frazier go smothering without taking some clean shots or an uppercut?

It's Frazier's chin here that makes me a little worried here. If the ref didn't stop the fight and Frazier kept coming in then maybe that could do a number on Tyson mentally... or maybe Frazier can smother enough without taking in some clean shots. Still, I got to think it's a generally bad style matchup because Frazier can't be on the inside forever. Tyson can operate somewhat competently on the inside and force clinches to break Frazier up. At mid-range Frazier will be doomed.