Could Lennox lewis handle Ali's speed?

Ali had some "pop". But not much compared to Morrison, Briggs, Bruno, Tyson, Klitschko, Tua, Mason, Ruddock, Tucker, etc. And he took punches from all of those without problem.

What about Ali? Lewis brings a combination of technique, timing and power that none of Ali's opponents had. Frazier had the stamina and consistency, but his hook was not a big one-punch weapon. Foreman the opposite, but his ability to land on a skilled boxer was horrible, and while Ali took a vicious body beating, he took relatively few on the chin. Shavers had terrible stamina and ability to get his punches in as well. On top of this, Lewis has a good few inches and 25+lbs of muscle on them.

I don't think Ali would be stopped, but the question certainly goes both ways.

 

Pre exile he was never caught on the ropes consistently. Even up until Manilla only Frazier and Norton pinned him there for any time, and Foreman he let pin him there. Anyway, that was due to stamina, not technique.

His low guard and pulling straight back served him well many times. He also held his hands up better when close to an opponent and when he couldn't dance anymore. His style was initially used to get the most out of his speed, and when his speed diminished he adapted the style accordingly.

He slapped with the hook at times, but he had a great hook when he saw fit to use it in a textbook sense. Just look at the double hook followed by a straight cross he floored Williams with, the hook he floored Bonavena with, the hook he finished off Quarry with (in the rematch) and the hooks he landed early on in FOTC.

Jones didn't outjab Ali. He was on the other hand very good at countering with a right over Ali's jab. Norton gave Ali a lot of trouble with the jab in their first fight, less so in the second - when Ali was in good shape mentally and physically. Lyle DEFINITELY didn't outjab Ali. He only won the rounds where Ali did absolutely nothing. As soon as Ali opened up he tagged Lyle seemingly at will. He didn't use the jab as much as in other fights, because he found out early that Lyle was vulnerable to a lead right. To use the fight against Young and Holmes as examples - come on! He was shot by the then. Had lost most of his speed and snap, and a good deal of his timing and reflexes.

Great/good jabbers that didn't trouble Ali too much with it: Liston, Williams, Folley, Terrell, Foreman, Bugner.

In Manilla, as previously stated, Ali showed good in-fighting skills as well. He didn't excibit those skills very often since he for obvious reasons preferred to stay on the outside. It's true he rarely went to the body, but against tall straight-backed (Williams, Terrell, Al Lewis) opponents he sometimes did it with good effect.

I know you're very knowledgable Mendoza and very often enjoy your posts, so I'll put it down to somewhat lazy deductions and not ignorance. But I think many are guilty of those when it comes to Ali. He wasn't flawless by any means, but more than possible any other HW he faced opponents of all shape, size and colours and found a way past all of them until he was nothing short of a ring wreck. A basically flawed fighter wouldn't do that.

I would say that the rematch against Quarry best shows the range of Ali's skills and technique.

 

You need to see his fight with the Canadian champion Chuvalo, my friend.

 

I have. And I wouldn't say Chuvalo pinned him on the ropes. He did manage to land some, though, especially to the body. But I didn't seem to bother Ali too much, and he gave far more than he got.

 

I dont think Ali ever faced a quality fighter the size of a Lewis..Lewis had gold medal pedigree as well as Ali...I think its not an easy fight for Ali inovative as he was...Lennox had a jab and a right and a hook as well, in the mind department Ali could ruffle a man but Ali really did not have the kind of power to take Lewis out with one punch but with speed can get a man hurt with combo's....Still a prime Ali vs A prime Lewis would not be an easy fight for either man and Lewis had the power and ability to walk Ali down and show his power. I think the hook would play into this fight and stamina also but Lewis's power also

 

Stonehands is essentially correct in my view. Neither size/reach (Terrell), nor power (Liston) nor boxing skills (Folley) came close to touching prime Ali. Lewis would bring them in one package, but it is a comparatively slower, less fluid version that I can't see getting the job done.

Ali's mantra would be, as usual, hit and not get hit, and he would frustrate Lewis, who would know what to do in his head but find himself simply unable to pull the trigger at the right time.

Plus, I see Lewis dangerously running out of stamina in the championship rounds.

Ali brings too much for the steroid-era champ.

 

Yes his technique was FLAWED he got away with it because of his physical attributes.

 

Lewis is not slower than Liston, despite having 30 pounds on him. Terrel let himself be taken out of the fight by his eye and only tried to survive. Folley was even more slow (35 at that point), but did manage to land quite a few good right hands and was something like even on my scorecard by the time of the stoppage. Not that he was a threat to Ali at any point, mind.

 

Ruddock never landed anything significant against Lennox Lewis when they fought, disregarding the amateurs, and it's shameful that a rematch never happened between them. Maybe Ruddock didn't deserve it because of the way Lennox blew him out, but that's Ruddock's fault for not having his head on straight for that fight.

CP, I'll agree with you that Frazier's left hook is not a one punch power shot. However, I'd bet the same hook he floored Ellis with, cracked Chuvalo's cheekbone and knocked Manuel Ramos out with to the body, would have Lennox on the floor, feeling it and hurting from it.

Prime Lennox wouldn't be able to handle pre-exile 1964-1967 Ali's speed. I think Lennox's punches, especially the straight right could definitely have Ali down early if he was able to catch him on the ropes. Lennox' problem is that he wasn't as strong with the left hook, a punch that Ali proved to be more vulnerable against.

Prime Lennox I'd give a 50/50 chance of stopping 1970 - 1974 post exile Ali, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ali won the fight by KO or unanimous decision. He sat down on his punches more during this stage of his career and displayed more toughness as well, absorbing shots from the heaviest hitters of the sport.

No disresct to you, just more love for Joe Frazier, who a lot on this forum disrespect, primarily because of his loss to Big George.

 

Lewis is good but Ali was special. Ali win late KO like in the Lyle fight. Even slow plodding Frank Bruno was outjabbing Lewis. Ali would murder him at that game.

 

Personally I think that's kind of a tired cliché. His movement required great technique: his foot feints, his way to punch off his movement - both defensively and offensively - his great finishing ability, the accuracy of his punches, his counters... All this is disregarded just because he wasn't text book enough. That just doesn't convince me.

Keep in mind that he kept on top even after his physical attributes had greatly diminished. So those clearly wasn't all he had.

 

hey, do you think jack dempsey had a good chin?

 

That's the same as saying Folley was outboxing Ali.

 

I think he had an ok chin for being a smaller heavyweight.

 

No