Could Sugar Ray Leonard be top 10 fighter of all time?

While he did beat Duran, Hearns and Hagler, you could also say he lost to all of them. Well, with Duran he actually did, he massively robbed Hearns in the rematch and Leonard-Hagler is the most disputed decision ever.

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

It´s just amazing how you get Jones Jr in just like every of your post. Amazing.

 

I do not know if he is top ten of all time as that is an exceptionally high number for anyone. I do consider him a top two or three welter and a top ten pound for pound for the second half of the 20th Century ... top ten ever ? Just not sure.

 

Most of my posts do not involve Jones

Its the truth though, most have an agenda against Leonard, Jones, Mayweather. The same way most used to hate Ali when he was in his prime, the same way I'm sure Ray Robinson would be hated today

Something about the truly talented that creates extreme jealousy, you don't see that with sub par champions who it is considered 'cool to like' because they aren't mainstream

 

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

 

If yoy just look at his record, I don't think he's top 10. But if you look at his skillset etc he looks better for it. One of the most complete ever.

It's not only that he defeated four great fighters, he defeated four fighters that varied a lot style-wise. That should be taken into consideration too.

And while close to his prime, he also almost lalways looked excellent against his second tier opponents.

 

You do have a point.

 

I have him in the top10

 

Yes, and if he had not had his injury and layoff, I am sure he would have been top 10 and maybe top 5. What fighter has 5 years in his prime with ONE fight and still gets into the top 20 of all time? Someone pretty damn special.

IMO he is easily top 5 for pure skills and boxing ability, he had no real flaws at all and his skills are actually underrated by most people. For example, he had a granite chin and was only stopped once when he was over 40 after years away from boxing, he fought big punchers like Hearns and Hagler and was never in serious trouble. His footwork was also amongst the best of any fighter. He had genuine KO power in both fists, great hand speed, and was technically very sound. Finally, if that was not enough, he had great heart and always did well in pressure situations.

Basically he had no weaknesses and had 4 or 5 key attributes at elite level (chin, hand speed, footwork, power, heart). His only loss in his prime was against a top 5-10 ATG fighter, and it was a pretty close fight which he decisively avenged. He moved up in weight and beat another top 20-30 ATG champion after a multi-year layoff.

It's quite possible in 20-30 years people will rate him top 10.

 

It depends how much you value depth, though I do think people who rate him outside the Top 20 have a bit of explaining to do.

If Leonard gets "hated" it's mainly because he was an arrogant **** - nothing to do with jealousy.

 

He's somewhere 10-15 for me.

 

Agreed. Ray isn't an easy fighter to rank and one I have a lot of mixed feelings about when taking into account how much of an arrogant charlatan he could be where matchmaking was concerned: the Duran rematch, although Duran has to be held accountable for his own stupidity; the refusal to give Hearns a rematch sooner and only eventually doing so in the end when he thought Hearns was on his way out; the refusal to rematch Hagler at all following a great win that many thought was nevertheless a loss; the stipulating that Lalonde weigh in at 168 while still putting his light heavy title on the line.

Some people are willing to overlook this, and that's up to them - they might be right to do so. Reading back my own words, they could be seen as being a bit churlish, but when you couple it up with the inactivity and overall 'lack of depth' on Ray's CV outside of the other big four (if you include Benitez), top 10 is too high for my liking. Despite the undeniable truth that Leonard ranks with the best.

IMHO.....Greb, Langford, Charles, Robinson and Armstrong are nailed on top 5 without too much argument to the contrary IMO. Duran and Benny L are the only other two unarguably deserving of a top 10 berth. The other 3 spots are contended by the likes of Pep, Ross, Moore, Ali, McLarnin, Canzoneri, Fitzsimmons and a few others. Top 15 wouldn't be an unreasonable argument for Ray, but I could personally not put him in the top 20 without feeling unjustified.

Bugger me drunk, I hate having to do long (or even medium length) posts. Always end up missing important points and coming across not how I want to.....

 

I have him around 12,13. Abillity is top 10, big wins are definitely top 10, I penalize longevity. All things being equal, I think you have to lean to guys with a couple hundred fights.

 

I wouldn't have him in my top 20, personally.
He was definitely great though.