Criticizing Jones' resume

KillSomething · Jan 10, 2015

Lest I make it sound like RJJ was all bad for the sport, take a look at what changes he inspired at HBO: http://a.espncdn.com/boxing/a/2002/0904/1427223.html

HBO puts on some quality fights nowadays, and clearly their experiences with Jones are what led to that.

Rumsfeld · Jan 10, 2015

KillSomething said: ↑

Loudon,

I can't keep going back and forth with you because you're turning it into a Bailey thread. Your facts are not new; we all have access to them. What's happening is we're looking at the same situations and seeing them differently, so it's not worth arguing about.

Me: Hopkins was one of RJJ's best wins, but Hopkins never beat anyone significant for the next 4 years and was learning on the job at that point.
You: Hopkins was in his prime and a great fighter.

Me: Toney was RJJ's best win, but Toney was clearly weight-drained and had already struggled with Nunn, McCallum, and Johnson and actually NEVER had another good win, later robbing Thadzi who DM beat easily.
You: That's ridiculous, Toney was a great fighter.

Me: Griffin was Toney's 3rd best win, even though his only good wins were controversial decisions over Toney and he was beating Jones at the time of the DQ in the first fight. It was impressive that Roy crushed him in the rematch.
You: Griffin was an excellent fighter and RJJ dominated him.

Me: RJJ fought a lot of terrible opposition, guys that had no quality wins before or after.
You: Belts don't mater, but they were mandatories and good fighters that RJJ made look ordinary. RJJ wanted better opponents but they wouldn't fight him. And some of them were prior beltholders or went on to win belts, not that belts matter.

Me: Roy lacked technical boxing skills and relied on athleticism and PED's. This is clear because once his athleticism left him, he was DOMINATED and looked clueless. This wasn't the case for guys like Moore, Calzaghe, Hopkins, and many others.
You: RJJ had some of the best skills of all time.

Me: RJJ looked impressive, but it was because his opponents were levels below him. We don't know how he would look against a good/great prime fighter at his own weight, but Griffin I and Tarver provide examples.
You: RJJ made good fighters look ordinary.

Me: RJJ ducked Nunn.
You: No he didn't, he was just planning to go to heavyweight and he beat much better fighters than Nunn anyway.

Me: RJJ ducked Rocchigiani (posts evidence from legal cases).
You: No he didn't, Rocchigiani ducked him. And RJJ wouldn't get credit for fighting him and fought much better fighters anyway.

Me: All 4 belts in the division should have belonged to DM (beat Hill and Rocchigiani), but they were stripped and handed to Roy via weak fighters.
You: So what? Belts don't even matter since RJJ was better than him.

Me: RJJ ducked DM.
You: No he didn't, DM ducked RJJ (posts stuff from RJJ and RJJ's network claiming this).

Me: RJJ ducked Collins (posts video of Collins challenging him in the ring during a postfight interview and being ignored by RJJ, Merchant, and panned out of the picture by HBO).
You: Collins ducked RJJ, and he wasn't good anyway.

Me: RJJ ducked a rematch with Hopkins.
You: Hopkins ducked a rematch with RJJ.

Me: The Ruiz win was just a cheap way of being abe to say RJJ was Heavyweight Champ.
You: The Ruiz fight was one of RJJ's best wins, Ruiz was good, Ruiz was bigger.

Me: Lots of other, smaller fighters have gone up to HW, won THE title, defended it, and moved back down to win lineal titles at other weights.
You: Nobody has done that recently, so it doesn't matter and RJJ is still awesome for kind of doing it.

Me: RJJ didn't pack on that much weight to move up, and I doubt it's the reason he was suddenly 'shot' when he fought Tarver and Johnson.
You: RJJ packed on 13.75333334 lb of muscle. Mackie Shilstone. BF%. He cut muscle and was shot.

Me: Tarver and Johnson had his number due to their styles.
You: RJJ was shot.

Me: RJJ was never lineal at any weight.
You: Doesn't matter, since we all know he would have beaten those guys and lineal titles are overrated.

You're supporting your points with things that Roy, his team, his network, and his trainer SAID, often years after the fact. You know as well as I do that people lie when they have an interest in the outcome of something (particularly when money or reputation is involved). You post quotes from fighters saying that Roy wasn't 'allowed' to fight them, but what fighter wouldn't want to make it clear that a great fighter's team was afraid their guy would get hurt by him? We all saw the Brannon interview which HBO set up to throw Roy softball, rehear$ed questions to justify the fact that their investment was not putting on quality shows that people wanted to see, so we know that Liles, Benn, etc. 'declined offers of over $1M.' What we don't know is the content of those offers, how they compared to what the fighters were already getting, or the timing of those offers (if the fighters already had something scheduled, had just fought, etc.). We don't even know if those offers even happened.

I understand you're a Jones fan, and he was fun to watch. But think about what you're reading.
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op

aussie opinion · Jan 10, 2015

at this thread ..and you....u douchebag

jakethemus · Jan 10, 2015

Hahah hah ha ha ..... wait what am i supposed to be laughing at again??

VG_Addict · Jan 10, 2015

Griffin was an excellent fighter? What? What were his best wins?

oiky · Jan 10, 2015

the OP is a proper fool

Stallion · Jan 10, 2015

JAB5239 said: ↑

Joe Louis fought almost once a month for 13 months, many against top 10 fighters when there was only ONE belt. But DM couldnt do it against a "nobody" as you put it. Lmao!!
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One of the weakest argument defenses while being wrong about the actual point.

Serge · Jan 10, 2015

The Celtic Warrior has been chasing Roid for the best part of two decades but Roid keeps on clucking like his roosters because he know Collins will rip him to pieces like he allows his own pet pitbulls to do to each other back home on his ranch in Florida. The last time Roid faced an Irishman he got his deplorable glass jaw shattered. Collins' countryman (who Collins knew because they competed in two ABA championships together a weight apart) John Reid knocked Roy senseless in three rounds, whilst wearing pillows and head gear, in an amateur bout in 1986 although to be fair to Roid that might have been before he started jacking himself full of all those steroids he was pumped full of during his heyday.

[YT]L9_171vbhRg[/YT]

GGGunbeatable · Jan 10, 2015

OP started a great thread, with much knowledge and many FACTS. People still call him a troll?? Are you serious?? Fanboys ..

Imperial1 · Jan 10, 2015

oiky said: ↑

the OP is a proper fool
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:deal

JAB5239 · Jan 10, 2015

Stallion said: ↑

One of the weakest argument defenses while being wrong about the actual point.
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The point has been made over and over in this thread. Bottom line is you cant cha.ge the facts. If its a weak argument than feel free to argue it my friend.

Rumsfeld · Jan 10, 2015

JAB5239 said: ↑

The point has been made over and over in this thread. Bottom line is you cant cha.ge the facts. If its a weak argument than feel free to argue it my friend.
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It's a weak argument because you're effectively saying it's OK for corrupt sanctioning bodies to make up ridiculously unreasonable demands.

JAB5239 · Jan 10, 2015

Rumsfeld said: ↑

It's a weak argument because you're effectively saying it's OK for corrupt sanctioning bodies to make up ridiculously unreasonable demands.
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No thats not what im saying. Im say many fighters from the past have fought in short periods of time in more diress. This isnt about money. If you wa.t that title than fight for it. Letting money and politics dictate your legacy is a weak excuse.

Stallion · Jan 10, 2015

JAB5239 said: ↑

The point has been made over and over in this thread. Bottom line is you cant cha.ge the facts. If its a weak argument than feel free to argue it my friend.
Click to expand...

You said "DM had 90 days to fight him (Guthrie) after Hill and chose to duck him and be stripped again".

It turned out that Dariusz really did have only about 30 days (contrary to what you've said) to schedule the fight since defeating Hill.

Instead of admitting being wrong, you decided to bring Joe Louis and his monthly title defenses from 1940s into the discussion.

That's a very weak defense of your argument (which you should've admitted being wrong to begin with).

Rumsfeld · Jan 10, 2015

JAB5239 said: ↑

No thats not what im saying. Im say many fighters from the past have fought in short periods of time in more diress. This isnt about money. If you wa.t that title than fight for it. Letting money and politics dictate your legacy is a weak excuse.
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:roll:

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Criticizing Jones' resume

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Criticizing Jones' resume

KillSomething Boxing Junkie Full Member

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aussie opinion Boxing Addict Full Member

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