Decade tourney Rnd 2 - 70s v 2000s

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Boilermaker, Jun 18, 2010.

  1. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    :patsch

    I'm wondering if you just have a completely spastic definition of "prime", or if you just haven't watched the film?

    So the manifest development of his punching style; increase in accuracy; growing eye for openings; dramatic improvement in his anticipation of punches, as well as slipping, blocking, parrying and countering skills; better footwork; the more skilled generalship and marshalling of distance; growth in his ability to position himself inside; an actual increase in his speed of hand and foot and power, and arguably chin; etc. - you don't think these reflected Duran's maturation as a fighter and his reaching his prime?
     
  2. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Yeah, the bias on here knows no bounds. You'll also be laughed at for picking Ray Robinson over Joshua Clottey or Muhammad Ali over Chris Arreola.
     
  3. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    I'm not picking him, but I don't think the fight is pre-determined as if Mayweather has no shot. Good chance is a relative term when he's going up against Duran.
     
  4. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Duran is the favorite. But thinking this is a lock makes it pointless to even discuss for those that believe that. I mean, we're allowed to have some unconventional picks. Duran is no doubt the #1-#2 lightweight, but that doesn't mean he's invincible at the division.
     
  5. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Look up the difference between the terms "peak" and "prime".


    Go ahead. :good




    Actually, I just realized where I made the mistake. I was stupid enough to list Duran's best lightweight win as his "prime", because he lost to a not that special lightweight around the same period of time. Obviously this would only be possible if Duran was ready for a wheelchair still being breastfed. In this case the latter, as he'd had only 33 professional fights yet!
     
  6. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    To just clarify on Chris' behalf, his idea of a prime is a lot more general than most. For example, he thinks Tyson prime is 86-96 which is something I like. There's a clear difference between peak/prime to him in that case. A prime ends once a noticeable or serious drop occurs, at least I think that's how he views it. I think he doesn't like the idea that a fighter can be invincible or awesome, and then losses and is way past it or shot. I don't know his beef or position on Duran. Obviously he finds too many excuses to be made for him. And there's a good point to that I guess, because if you're a little inconsistent you can't be invincible all fantasy matches.
     
  7. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    That comparison isn't fair to be honest.
     
  8. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Yeah, that's where you made the mistake. It wasn't adopting a waywardly esoteric definition of the word "prime" or completely ignoring Duran's development as a fighter or anything.
     
  9. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Of course not, but when you duck any debate to complain about unfair standards and bias and such, you're inviting it.
     
  10. itrymariti

    itrymariti Cañas! Full Member

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    Also I love how Chris seems to think that that definition of prime is totally acceptable. It would be like saying Ali was prime when he fought Jones, or that Hopkins was prime when he was slugging it out with Gilbert Baptiste... all, of course, totally accepted judgements. Conduct a poll on how many people think Duran was prime vs. Buchanan and you willbe embarassed.

    Or has ESB collectively rewritten the dictionaries to prop up Duran fanboyship and excuse-making? :lol:
     
  11. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Current Score:
    Heavy: Ali- Lewis - 10-9
    Light heavy – Foster Jones –11-8
    Middle: Monzon – Hopkins – 16-3
    Welter: Leonard – Moseley 19-0
    Light: Duran – Mayweather 13-5
    Feather: Jofre/Arguello – Pacquaio – 6-10
    Bantam: Olivaries v Marques 14-0
    Fly: Canto v Wonjongkam 14-1
    Current Score
    70s – 7 2000’s 1

    The 2000s actually finished pretty strongly, despite the thrashing. Pacman ended up clearing out and saving the zero, Lewis took Ali within a point of winning and had several Ali pickers acknowledging that it was a close fight, Jones was rallying late, but failed to overrun foster. And Mayweather caused Duran some difficulties which most acknowledging a very tough fight for Duran, despite a solid win. Even Hopkins took his share of wins of of Monzon. Still, the 70s go through to the next round and must be the favourites for the tournament.
     
  12. GPater11093

    GPater11093 Barry Full Member

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    One out of his normal weight-class and by some accounts unmotivated. I think this is a phenomenal win for Benitez though.

    But this bout isnt at Light-Middleweight, it is at Lightweight. Duran at Lightweight was much better at applying pressure and forcing himself upon opponents, which would have success against skilled boxers like Mayweather.

    Mayweather, but Buchanan is probably the greater Lightweight. Although Mayweather is probably better, but not by much IMO.

    I'm not calling you crazy, I just think it is highly unlikely. If you look at the success Duran had against boxers like Mayweather, at Lightweight, it is hard to see where Mayweather would have the edge in the bout.


    Mayweather can pose problems, but we are dealing with a Lightweight fight and surely fights where Duran fought a skilled boxer at Lightweight like Buchanan or DeJesus, is more relevant than Benitez.

    Agreed. The Castillo wins are good.

    Very vague statement. Perhaps you could explain how these skills help him win.

    Because I could just say

    Duran has an iron chin, great fighting heart - both of which he showed against Dejesus in the 2nd and 3rd bouts - incredible pressure and outstanding overrall skills.
     
  13. mckay_89

    mckay_89 Haw you! Full Member

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    Muhammed Ali vs Lennox Lewis - Lewis UD
    Bob Foster v Roy Jones Jr - Jones UD
    Carlos Monzon v Bernard Hopkins - Hopkins UD
    Ray Leonard v Shane Mosley - Leonard Late KO
    Roberto Duran v Floyd Mayweather Jr - Mayweather UD
    Eder Joffre v Manny Pacquiao - Pacquiao SD
    Rueben Olivares v Rafael Marquez - Olivares KO
    Miguel Canto v Wonjongkam - Canto UD