Deficiencies, Fallacies & Half-truths in world class fighters...

In my opinion there is no such thing as a perfect fighter (although a few have come close) so what are some of the glaring deficiencies you might notice in what are generally regarded as world level or even special fighters, which would've made them even better had they sorted it out or not had it? Here are a couple to get you started;

Meldrick Taylor was a brawler trapped in a boxers body.

Jermaine Taylor has extremely low boxing IQ.

Pacquiao's kryptonite is the lead right counter because he rushes in with 6 straight shot combos.

James Toney had no legs and gave up his left side and liver area. A deficiency i noticed in Toney was that his lack of footwork and style of leaning to his right meant he left his left side exposed, this was validated when he was reported to be urinating blood in several fights because of it.

The other part of the question is, what are some of the fallacies mentioned when arguing for or against a particular fighter? those things that have become accepted because they've been said so many times even though it's not true.

Examples...

Cotto has poor whiskers.

This always seemed unfair to me about Cotto because he has faced many big punchers. There was that Brazilian who was meant to be a killer and destroy Miguel, his name was Kelson Pinto and he was like 27-0 with 22ko's. Ricardo Torres was 28-0 with 26ko's. Randall Bailey is one of those punchers who could put you into ambien land. Then there was that Russian guy who beat him in the Olympics and had a big KO ratio when Cotto got revenge in the pros. Shane Mosley etc. This always annoys me when i hear it because when you really look at his record, you see the truth.

All you needed to do was not be intimidated by Mike Tyson...face up to him and you won the fight, another that bugs me.

Then there's the half-truths, those things that had some credibility to them but didn't tell the whole story, like Ali was a terrible body puncher and never went to the body or Joe Calzaghe never turned the gloves over and just slapped you to submission.

I realise some of the examples are not the best (thats where you all come in) and the thread might not have much legs, but i thought it'd be interesting to see what others have noted...i look forward to your responces. :good

Note: The deficiencies, fallacies and half-truths can be technical, psychological or just a lifestyle habit, but the fighter must be regarded as a 'world class' fighter because we can all pick holes in ordinary pugilists.

 

Deficiencies

Oscar De La Hoya blew his load after eight rounds

All of his biggest fights are closer than they should be because his stamina is appalling. But if he'd had the conditioning and a trainer that had developed that right hand earlier, he'd have been awesome.

Shane Mosley struggles with slick boxers

Without a doubt. Give him a textbook guy, or a slugger, or a pressure fighter and he's in heaven. Give him a guy with skills, great timing and good counter punching and he suddenly looks a lot less special. Forrest, Wright, Oscar (second time), Cotto and Mayweather all showed how his over-eagerness could be taken advantage of.

Fallacies

The way to beat Mayweather is with pressure

No, the way to beat Mayweather is with a strong jab and straight right, consistent work rate and to punch with him. Rushing at him and bulling him to the ropes doesn't help, because he's got as good an inside game as his outside game, and he'll just catch you as you swing wildly.

 

^^^

That's the one that always makes me laugh.

The old ''rough him up inside and he won't like it'' shite that people say about Mayweather. All you heard was ''Hatton will drop him with a body shot'', the fight was probably closer in the early rounds when Floyd was boxing on the outside rather than standing his ground and having a fight like he did later.

 

Lennox Lewis was 'Chinny'.

Fallacy IMHO.

Stopped twice, both times by sucker punches that would have KO'd just about anyone. Even then against McCall you could argue his case for being allowed to continue.

Also went in with some big punchers (Briggs, Tua, Klit) and came out without so much as a wobble.

 

Brillient, that's the sort of stuff i'm looking for. Can't forget the lifestyle ones though like Ricks guinness carousing in between bouts, can't say it hindered him to much though.

 

Was just about to say this, Lewis' chin is under-rated to the point of idiocy by many people.

Erik Morales let his heart rule his head

I think Morales' boxing skills are very under-appreciated by some boxing fans, but the guy had a ridiculous amount of machismo, which meant that these skills were seen only on fleeting occasions, such as his coming-of-age bout against Zaragoza, 2nd fight with Barrera (which I think he won) and 1st fight with Pacquiao for the most part.

But once the guy got hit, he would absolutely refuse to be cautious, and got into wars with guys who he was better than by some margain, such as Chi, McCullough, Chavez and more. But then again, I guess that is what made Morales 'El Terrible.' :thumbsup

 

Good shout, Erik was always an emotional guy and fought that way...shows how good he was that he still achieved greatness whilst not fighting to his strengths in many fights. His 'emotion' is why Barrera got the better of him even though Erik was technically better and why i would give Naz a better chance of landing a hail mary against Erik then he ever had of doing it against Barrera. That last round of Morales vs. Pacquiao is the epitome of his career...truly awesome!

Btw, just to show how scary he was, I saw Erik do things so subtle in some fights that it made me shocked. He would actually step away from the finish several times to prolong a beating sometimes (I've also seen a peak Cotto do this) and I never use to believe that he felt that locked in and confident to string another fighter along.

I might be too myopic about this because some of them were just Contenders, but some of the zones of accuracy that Erik displayed throughout his illustrious career, especially with the right hand set up by his brillient footwork and positioning were incredible! It has me believing that wee Willie will look like a porkchop to a veteran that is utterly dialed in.

 

Kid Gavilan was a feather fist

Not fair IMO, his KO% often leads people to think he couldn't punch. He was no banger, but his accuracy, snap and bad intentions meant he got the respect of many Middleweight contenders and stopped many top Welters of his day.

 

Some quality posts thus far, top thread, DfTaylor you've outdone yourself again, post of the day thus far :good

 

:good Great post

Oscar's biggest problem wasn't his stamina as such IMO it was more his ability to fight through his 2nd wind without showing signs of fatigue. After 8 rounds he'd completely change his rhythm of figthing and basically say to his opponent 'look, i'm tired' rather than fight through it, giving them a lift and typically see him lose the next 3 or 4 rounds. His stamina wasn't awful because there were a few occasions he came out in the 12th and had big rounds (Molina & Sweet Pea) but he never learned to fight the same way through fatigue, and this cost him in his biggest fights (Tito, Mosley).

The oscar one is an outstanding example because if he had learned to overcome this, he could possibly have wins over trinidad, mosley (x2) and mayweather and we could be talking about an all-time great fighter.

DEFICIENCIES

ZAB JUDAH'S CONDITIONING - hugely talented fighter who didn't have the conditioning to fight past 6 rounds or when things started to go against him.

Top thread Slip, i'll give this a bit more thought.

 

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The bit on Oscar is SPOT ON IMO :good

Marciano was a one dimensional slugger

I'm not The Rocks biggest supporter, but he knew how to create room on the inside, utilised deft head movement to take the sting off of punches and managed to break the rhythm of Charles and Walcott, two master boxers.

 

Julio Cesar Chavez could be easily out-boxed

This is all HBO's fault for the Meldrick Taylor fight. Throughout that fight Chavez landed the harder, better punches and blocked a lot of Taylor's shots. But because HBO's team made out like Chavez was being beaten senseless, this myth has sprung up that Chavez's could be outboxed easily.

There were only a few people who out-boxed Chavez, including Whitaker. He was a complete fighter who only lost to the best in his prime,

 

Another quality post :good

Add to the fact that the Pea fight was at 147 (a weight that Pea proved his ability at and beyond) and the fact Pea is arguably one of THE great all-rounders with one of the greatest defences of all time and was tough as ****

One guy I wouldn't give Chavez 50-50 with is 135lb Duran. His range of skills make it a really bad matchup for Chavez IMO.

Chavez Vs Pryor@140 would be summat else :yep

 

Brilliant thread.

 

Great point, the fact that Oscar closed the show in some cases indicates it was more psychological and other issues then just plain running out of gas.

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