Did Calzaghe avoid Ottke like the plague?

bailey,

It's not just my opinion.

Start a thread if you want.

It wasn't listed in the Ring magazine in the 90's.

I know, I've got issues of them.

Yes.

There's nothing wrong with stats, if they're looked at objectively.

Sobot was just an example off the top of my head.

Do you think that a guy of Joe's talents should have been rematching Veit in his 30's?

What can't you grasp, about the fact that defending the WBO at SMW for as long as he did, cost him opportunities for bigger fights earlier?

Not when Joe first spoke of going up to LHW.

The same thing happened with Roy. He couldn't get certain fights at SMW, so he moved to LHW. Yet you criticise him, yet praise Joe for staying put, just because things happened to turn out good for him in the end.

When he couldn't fight Ottke, he should have moved up.


Look, you can't have it both ways.

It gets on my nerves, that you, assassin and Joe himself, all use the victim card.

It's always the same.

He wanted the big fights, but couldn't them.

You have to realise that his career choices prevented bigger fights.

But you're not objective enough to see this.

Go and ask MAJR.

He's a fan of Joe's and a fair poster.


Now I respect Joe as a fighter, and I can respect that he was proud of his WBO title defences.

We've seen in a recent interview that he was extremely proud of his title defences, saying that he made 24 defences.

But you and him can't have it both ways.


The fact that he was proud of his defences, tells everyone that he was happy to fight those guys who Frank and the WBO lined up.


But in doing so, it meant that there was no call for him to fight big fights against the likes of Roy.

Can you not see that?

We know he held talks with Hopkins and Roy, and they weren't interested.

That's because Joe wasn't a big name that brought a respected title or lots of money, and neither was he a mandatory.

His 24 WBO belt defences cost him bigger fights.


His whole attitude was - 'If a big fight comes, I'll take it.'

That was always his attitude.

He's got a huge ego, and he still to this day, claims that he wanted bigger fights but he couldn't them.

But what he doesn't realise is, it was his title reign that heavily contributed to him not getting them.


So if he's proud of his WBO reign, fine, no problem.

But he can't at the same time, moan that he didn't get bigger fights in his prime.


At least Eubank showed some honesty when he held the title, and admitted he was happy to defend on ITV and Sky and never chased the big fights.

Explain what?

GGG is more popular today, than what Joe was in the 90's/early 00's.

 

I've never read a thread about Holmes.

Pele wasn't really known, until someone dug the video up of Vitali when they were young.

Who really knew Pele in the 90's?

He wasn't a household name.

Neither was Stone before he fought Shane and Vernon.

No, I don't know anything about Lewis or Wilders.

Have I failed my exam?

 

Lucky for me most Jones fights were aired live on TV. I remember my dad sitting me down telling me to watch this guy... I was pretty young but still in awe, I thought he was better than Mike Tyson who was superman to me at the time.

Watching Jones fights was usually a big thing for my family, we would either go to my uncles or he would come over to our house. I also got into watching Oscar, Bowe, Holyfield, Lewis, Hamed, Mosley, ect around this time.. Having HBO helped too, there were tons of good fights on regular HBO in the 90s. I was a casual fan through the 90's by most standards, as I just followed the Roy and the big names on HBO..I used to read ring magazine as well and learned a lot there, I also really learned a lot about boxing and its history here on ESB.

I was never that familiar with overseas fighters like Eubank, Benn, Calzaghe as they weren't shown regularly over here, or if they were it was at weird hours. I didn't get into their careers until late and I had to go back and watch their fights, except Calzaghe, I followed his last 5 fights or so live.

I was on vacation visiting my grandparents when Jones-Griffin 2 was on.. I begged them to order it, saying they had to watch Jones fight.. Oddly I was back in the same place for Tarver-Jones 2 and watched that fight sitting in the same spot on the couch as I did for Jones-Griffin 2.. Weird huh?

 

bailey,

Part 2.

Every fighter needs America at some point, if they want the biggest fights.

The majority of the worlds best fighters, have all either fought in America or have been based there.

Naz signed his Adidas contract and went to America to further his career.

Respected by who?

It sold millions of copies worldwide and was labelled as 'The Bible of Boxing' for many, many years.

I've never been just a casual fan.

I was hooked on boxing from being a young age.

My original point, was that in the late 90's/early 00's, the likes of the Ring magazine didn't rate the belt.

Of course he could change his mind, that was his right.

But as I've mentioned in my previous post, it's decisions like that, that cost him bigger fights and respect and recognition earlier.

Go and ask the U.S. fans on this forum.

He didn't really get his respect until he'd hammered Lacy. But he was 34 by then.

February, 2004.

In February 2004, when Joe made his comments about moving up, Lacy and Kessler had done nothing.

Yes, they became competitors.

But they obviously weren't on his mind when he made his comments before fighting Mkrtchyan.

Again, he'd done nothing at the time of Joe's comments.

It's you who asked "Why should he have gone up, when Lacy and Kessler were there?"

They weren't in his plans before Mkrtchyan.

Kessler had beaten nobody of note, and the fact that Joe had said there was nothing left to achieve at SMW, tells you that Kessler wasn't in his immediate plans.

He'd done nothing, apart from winning two, vacant International belts.

That's fair enough, but it doesn't add up to what he'd told the media before Mkrtchyan.

Nobody says that Tarver would have given him a shot.

But when a fighter starts making noise about wanting big money fights at LHW, it's obvious that Roy and Tarver's name would have been put to him.

But to my knowledge, he never seemed interested in Tarver, later admitting that he didn't rate him, because he'd done nothing apart form beat a faded version of Roy.

Why do you think?

You can't say it didn't matter that he didn't fight Tarver, just because he beat the guy who beat the guy.

Joe should have been looking to fight the likes of Tarver instead of the likes of Mkrtchyan, Salem and Veit etc.

He never went up did he, until 2008, and even fights with Johnson were supposed to be at SMW I believe.

There was no way he was giving up his precious WBO belt, to move up.

You show me links of guys that weren't interested, yet Joe was never willing to fight at their weight classes.

We know that Roy wanted huge money, to drop back down to SMW, and to fight Joe away from home.

But we never saw anything where Joe offered to fight Roy in America, at LHW.

Why did everything always have to be on Joe's terms?

Also, everyone mentions Hopkins not wanting to fight Joe in 2002. But why was Joe wanting to fight a MW back then?

Lacy had beaten nobody of note.

Tarver had knocked out the best fighter in the world, and was a southpaw.

Joe beating Tarver in 2004, would have been a bigger win than beating Lacy in 2006.

Beating Hopkins earlier, would also have been bigger than beating Lacy and Kessler.

Being a two weight champ, or the unified champ at LHW, would have been a bigger achievement than unifying SMW, had he have gotten the opportunities to fight those guys.

They may not have done, that's a good point.

It's obviously all speculation.

Maybe he'd have had a better career, maybe he wouldn't have done.

We'll never know will we?

Again, things turned out well for him in the end.

That's fine.

I'm sure he had his reasons.

Again, I'm just arguing against the logic, that he changed his mind to have big fights against Lacy etc.

Clearly, that couldn't have been the case. Not when Lacy had only fought 16 times at that point.

Of course it counts for something.

It's a huge achievement for a boxer just to turn pro, and to win a regional title.

He can be proud of what he achieved.


The whole thing with me though, is his ego and his attitude.

It's that what gets on my nerves.


Again, like I've alluded to on my previous post, he was always the guy who wanted bigger fights, but couldn't them.

He's always portrayed himself as a victim of circumstances to the media.

Yet, it was all of his own doing.


People appreciate honesty.

That's why a guy like Eubank will always be more respected.


I simply don't like Joe as a person, from the countless interviews that he's given over the years, which have included him contradicting himself on numerous occasions.


But I'm happy to admit that he was a great fighter, and I respect him as a fighter, as I do with all fighters.

 

Good post, thanks for the reply.

:good

 

The simple and correct answer here is YES.

 

Loudon used to ask a load of questions about his "supposed" favorite fighter in Roy Jones to a poster called General Zod. i just find it strange that he needs information about Jones from some other guy.

things just don't add up with Loudon sometimes, that's all.

 

can you not just tell me which part Joe was supposedly bitter??

that's all i'm asking.

 

you seem very insecure Loudon with all this "did he even watch Jones in full back then" yes i did.

the reason i question you sometimes is down to you asking lots of questions about your favorite fighter on here. because if you did watch as you say, then you'd already have the answers. so it is a bit strange.

Jones against Hopkins and Toney were shown on ITV back when they were big on boxing.

Sky then signed up all the fighters when they took off, but didn't show Jones because of his unwillingness to fight the best out there. they did show his fight against Gonzales Live, but that was a rare showing. the only other time was the 3rd fight with Tarver

when Sky went over to digital, ITV2 showed a lot of boxing by way of 24 hour delay, so he was on there a few times.

the BBC had 24 hour delay of boxing for a few years where they showed his fights with Woods, Kelley (it wasn't live like you said) the first Tarver fight etc etc...

the rest i got from Boxing Monthly from fight collectors. that's how i got to see Mikkel Kessler because he wasn't shown over here apart from a few times later on.
i read about him and the reviews he was getting so i decided to check the guy out and order some of his fights. i liked what i saw and became a big fan.

but if you're a big fan of Jones like you claim, then can you tell me how you viewed the Jones/Ruiz fight?? :think

 

Herol, by the fact the you came back with "my Girlfriend is Welsh" shows your desperate attempt to try and distance yourself from your clear problems with those who are Welsh. it's predictable.

i've called you out for over a year now on this, but it's only now that you come out with this???

Serge has spotted you for what you are as well. it's not only me that has noticed.

 

bailey always answers questions from posters. where has he not??

as he says, run along now you freak. :good

 

Hey MAJR,

Terrific post. A breath of fresh air between the extremists on both side of this debate on this sight. Keep up the good work.

 

I can answer that, but will be interested to see what Loudon puts, as I have asked him a few questions myself today, because like you say. Some things just dont seem to add up and I have started to think Loudon may have been a casual fan, now trying to catch up on what he missed a few years ago