Did the second Foreman REALLY have a better chin than the first Foreman?

I mean... Is there anybody that Big George beat that Old George couldn't? I think that he may have even better matchups due to superior gameplans and having a better mindset. He made brilliant use of his jab, timing, and otherwise in his comeback. I personally believe that Old George would likely beat all the same fighters, lose to Ali again, but have a legitimate chance against Young this time around, even if Young is no worse.

 

No I don’t think so - he was more relaxed and had a better defence. Archie Moore taught him to roll with shots better to I think.

 

If the answer from the "yes" vote is accepted, then it means that the second Foreman in the 70s would only lose to Ali by points (?).
It also means that Second Foreman would beat First Foreman...

 

Less then Jimmy Young got it over Old George by fighting negatively.

 

I know what you were saying. I just was speaking on the "Avalanche" thing, these questions are easily answered.

 

I agree. Chins don't magically improve 20 years later.

 

He might. Young Foreman was not really suited to taking the fight to a bigger stronger opponent with an educated fight plan. I think younger Foreman was more dynamic and explosive and that he was better suited to fighting faster fighters. But he'd be charging head first into the telephone pole jab of old Foreman and trying to beat down a guy that basically was not beat down even by dudes like Briggs. There's a solid argument to be made for older Foreman beating younger Foreman.

 

I would suspect anyone with this argument having an "angle" favoring someone in the 90s. Whether it be Tyson, Holyfield or Lennox thats what comes to mind when I hear someone suggesting Foreman II was better than Foreman I.

Archie Moore has a case to be better when hes old because he had a surgery to have an ulcer removed. Other than something like that I don't see how one can make this argument. And Moore in his prime without the ulcer would be better than old man Moore too.

 

You mean the 90's.

There is not a snowflakes chance in hell 90's Foreman was as good as 70's Foreman.

90's Foreman would not win a round vs Ali and barring a miracle be beaten by Young whom i don't believe would have beaten the more aggressive Foreman from Ali and backwards a few fights.

70's Foreman's chin did not cost him a single fight.

 

Well, in respect of ultimate resilience, there are several other attributes, both physical and mental, to throw into the melting pot besides the pure and apparently inalterable physiology of the chin - and those other attributes can be somewhat plastic (open to change) in their nature.

In terms of pure physiology, I would say that first career Foreman had a terrific chin and I think he took that very same chin in with him the second time around BUT with improved complementary attributes such as better pacing, associated conditioning, relaxedness, experience in reacting to and fighting hurt, etc.

Greater size could come into it also - including the benefit of greater neck size already cited earlier in this thread.

That’s not an improved chin per se but it could lessen the snap of the head and associated brain swish.

Formulate the equation you like for it but I’ve never seen Foreman’s head so severely twisted (and as often as it was) in his fight against Ali - Ali’s right hand leads were deadly and highly potent.

For one example, see below. Eat your heart out Linda Blair: -

https://www.enterprisenews.com/story/news/2016/06/04/fight-by-fight-muhammad-ali/28026372007/

Anyway, comparable examples of greater size apparently enhancing resilience would seem apt to call in.

Perhaps Heavy James Toney (precluding his great defence) might be a good example. Evander also?

 

Completely untrue.

 

IF the answer to the voting question is "YES" - then that would mean that the second Foreman has more or less the same chin as Oliver McCall.
Well, now... how would such a Foreman spend his time in the 70s?

 

It's no problem if I'm wrong.
But try to explain it in a little more detail.

 

I agree a pre-Ali Foreman beats young and that 90s Foreman would be laughably befuddled by Young but imo he has the stamina the version who faced Young didn't have, and if he gets him in a position like he did in the 7th, even this version of Foreman could very well finish the job but like you said it's absolutely a long shot.

 

If the second version of Foreman indeed had a better chin (which is a pretty big if), that alone doesn't guarantee victory. He's facing a man 20 years younger, (even) more powerful, much much faster, and more of a natural fighter.