I think Ali took the most damage in the Holmes.fight, that was a public execution, and a brutal beatdown, in a fight that should have been stopped after 5 or 6 rounds, and what was even more criminal was Ali fighting Berbick 6 months later...
Ali slipped a little between Zaire and Manilla. After the latter bout,his decline started in earnest. Apart from his deterioration in the ring,though,I did n't notice any signifigant physical decline with speech etc until after the second Spinks fight. It was criminal allowing Muhammad a licence prior to the Holmes and Berbick fights. It was more than obvious that something was wrong with him by then.
Thanks for correcting me i thought Ali fought Berbick in Dec 1980- when it was actually Dec 1981... Ali was an old 40 by then, suffering from Kidney problems, and slurred speech, they must of been very Liberal about licensing back in those day's, if it were now, Ali rightfully WOULD NOT get licensed anywhere:-(
Agree. The Holmes fight should never have happened... In any event, it should be stopped well before.
Im not squeamish but i never watch the 3rd ali frazier fight anymore its brutal. I feel a bit ashamed of myself watching, I mean they were killing each other, had the same feeling watching bowe vs golota 2
Manilla was indeed a tough fight but at the time it did n't look any more brutal than many others. We did n't realise the effect that it would have on both men till years later
maybe, but for me with the heat, the intensity, the gloves falling to pieces, the damage they inflicted and I love them both I don't like watching it I feel like it went too far somehow.
it's like Muhammad and Joe knew that it would be the last time they'd face each other. They let it all out. Too much,maybe
Ali is the best ever in my book and Ithink he was at his best in the 60´s specially against Cleveland Williams. But in thirilla in manilla I Think he Went to far with his jokes about Frazier. I also wonder what would have happened if they had continued in the 15th round. Ali was dead tired and Frazier was ready to fight
THIS.... I wonder if Ali's granite chin at the end was ironically his outdoing. All considered, perhaps it would have been better for him in the long term to eat some early-round KOs during his career, instead of enduring so many long gruesome battles up to the last round.
Although it was several years before,I don't think the Foreman fight can have done him any favours, the way he was letting George unload on him to the body.
I don't think it can be pinned down to one bout, because from Zaire onwards he was shipping punishment in a lot of fights: Foreman, Frazier, Norton, Shavers, Holmes, Spinks, even Wepner, who landed about 200 rabbit punches.
I reckon Frazier would have been stopped had he come out for the 15th. Joe could n't see Muhammad's punches coming anymore. Both men were exhausted but Ali could see. Frazier could n't