Dmitry Bivol vs Matthew Saad Muhammad

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Devon, Sep 20, 2024.

?

Who wins?

  1. Bivol KO/TKO

    3.0%
  2. Bivol PTS

    60.6%
  3. Saad Muhammad KO/TKO

    33.3%
  4. Saad Muhammad PTS

    3.0%
  1. Mod-Mania

    Mod-Mania Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Bivol UD.
     
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  2. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Saad ain't 40 years old
     
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  3. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    Saad crude??
     
  4. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Seems like a mismatch in favor of Bivol
     
  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    :lol:
     
  6. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

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    Bivol has proven himself to be excellent. I thought he was a bit more comfortable against Beterbiev than most are saying tbh, even when Beterbiev was coming on in the middle rounds. He never seemed to get to grips with breaking down Bivols guard and defensive posture; it was more Bivol taking stretches off that made those rounds close imo, because Beterbiev was largely hitting gloves, elbows, shoulders and forearms.

    Bivol is a bit like Arbachakov imo in that he doesn't seem to make consistent use of his arsenal or show more than hints of another gear that seems to be there lurking on a serviceable level. With Arbachakov it was his left hook and punch slipping, where with Bivol it seems to be slipping and consistently using his combinations. There were occasions against Beterbiev where he'd parry or frame his arms and counter sharply, or dip and pivot away in a short circle in excellent fashion when it looked like he'd gotten himself into a corner.

    Beterbiev looked clueless much of the time when this was happening, but then Bivol would spend more time shimmying backwards with his guard up and a static upper body waiting for Beterbiev to finish punching and stalking. But on the occasions when he set his feet and traded with Beterbiev he more than held his own. His legs and guard are his main defence but there sometimes seems to be more there that he doesn't use enough or hasn't expanded on. I dunno.

    It's the spells off and waiting for a man to finish punching that I don't like against Saad, not when Saad had a mid to long range arsenal that was at worst equal to Bivols and was a 15 round monster with immense stamina. If Bivol could at least partly diffuse the extra attacking dimensions that Saad had and do more of what he only sometimes does in spurts, it might be quite interesting. It's an if, though.
     
  7. FThabxinfan

    FThabxinfan Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Another reason why Saad could beat Bivol is this,this is also Conteh's mistake when fighting Saad as he took a good amount of time with his arsenals off,leaving Saad free to blast him open, although I think Saad taking his jab away may be the reason why too.
     
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  8. Fireman Fred

    Fireman Fred Active Member Full Member

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    I think this would be closer than many think. Saad fought some classy boxer types as good (if not better) than Bivol like Mate Parlov (x2), Marvin Camel (x2), Eddie Mustafa Muhammad, John Conteh (x2).

    Over 15 I think Saad might eke a close decision, over 12 maybe Bivol.

    Here´s brief hls of a young Saad against 1972 Olympic champ, 1973 European Amateur and 1974 World Amateur champ and reigning EBU champ and World champ 13 months later in 1976 (draw in Italy where Saad had won on points in the 1st fight 6 months before)
    This content is protected
     
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  9. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

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    I reckon it was less a mistake than Conteh no longer having the stamina and legs to do 15 at a good pace any more and being completely one handed by that point. He'd looked like a clearly declining force for the couple of years previous. Bad hands, bad lifestyle, management disputes etc. He looked like a spent force Vs Burnett not too long prior. He was a lot more reinvigorated vs Saad and was really sharp skillwise for a final time but no longer had the legs, lungs or punch to deter or out finesse Saad over the distance, though he did keep it up for a quite a long time before being pegged back late.

    Conteh though still had the sort of excellent Napolesesque smooth upper body and head movement and spiteful infighting ability that Bivol doesn't really have to the same degree.
     
  10. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Saad wasn't a standout in his own era and lost to the best guys he faced

    I should think Spinks is a more competitive matchup

    He also fought in an era of same day weigh ins and wasn't fighting guys in the 190s 200s
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2025
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  11. MagnificentMatt

    MagnificentMatt Beterbiev literally kills Plant and McCumby 2v1 Full Member

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    Oftentimes being a bit “crude” is the best shot against master boxers.
     
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  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft He Who Saw The Deep Full Member

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    That's ridiculous. Saad absolutely was a standout in his own era, and said era was much, much better than the current era. Bivol wouldn't be a standout if he was around at the same time as Conteh, Qawi, Eddie, Spinks, Pops and Saad.

    He lost to Qawi. One guy - who should definitely be favoured over Bivol, top. He didn't lose to the best guys he faced, at all. In fact, he beat Conteh, Pops and Lopez twice.

    Spinks is definitely, 100% a bridge to far for Bivol. We're talking about a guy who outboxed Larry Holmes.

    Bivol is not 190-200lbs so I fail to see what relevance that has. He's even talked about moving down to 168 before. It's even less relevant when you consider Saad fought multiple guys who'd move up to CW & HW.
     
  13. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

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    I wouldn't be in a rush to say that Bivol was better than the likes of Kates, Ahumada and Fourie in all honesty, and that's no insult. They were all excellent world class fighters who were unlucky to come along when they did and could have done with a cleaner break or two, hence their records look less flattering than Bivols. If Bivol was in an era with those three plus Foster, Conteh, Galindez, EMM, Lopez, Saad, Scott, Johnson etc with Qawi and Spinks popping up at the end when he was slowing down.........yeah. Even the likes of Eddie Davis is a potential banana skin in a packed schedule.

    Bivol has Beterbiev, Canelo and Ramirez (which is good) but not much else. It's quite a big drop off when your next best scalps are Pascal, Arthur, Joe Smith Jr and Sullivan Barrera, none of whom would have been serious threats at world level in the 70s.
     
  14. Dorrian_Grey

    Dorrian_Grey It came to me in a dream Full Member

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    Okay, seems I caused a bit of a stir with this post. Cruder was probably the wrong word to describe the difference between Beterbiev and Saad's game. I would probably say that Beterbiev is tighter offensively than Saad and more disciplined though. Both men are very well-rounded and both hit like trucks but Beterbiev is better schooled even if Saad is more creative. I don't think there's much difference in the variety of either man's offence, both can box, pressure, and counter very effectively. I did have Beterbiev-Bivol 1 a Beterbiev win and the second a draw for reference. I don't rate Bivol too highly and of course consider Saad a much greater fighter but Bivol proved his durability and ring-smarts in spades against Beterbiev. I just think Bivol would find the holes in Saad's defence and stunt Saad's offensive rhythm with his piston jab and snappy counters. Bivol also just doesn't get sloppy. He has tremendous focus and keeps his defence tight. I just can't see Bivol giving Saad much opportunity to land his hellacious power cleanly.
     
  15. Cojimar 1946

    Cojimar 1946 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I wouldn't put Saad in his eras top 3 so he wasn't the best or close to being the best

    And Bivol fighting guys in the 190s 200s should raise questions about the ability of smaller guys to hurt him given he's fighting bigger men on average and Saad isn't a monster puncher. If he can't hurt Bivol what's his plan for victory