Do you consider Tyson to be a H2H top 5 heavyweight?

Eddie Futch knew about boxing and had watched it a long time.
I've read articles with quotes by him and other similarly knowledgeable veteran experts that say Tyson would have definitely lost to Ali and Louis and Liston, for example.

And they said lots of good things about Tyson too.
But your statement was false - unless of course you think Futch et al hadn't watch boxing long enough, or didn't know anything.

 

First off I said the fighters themselves. I think in regards to trainers, after the fact, when they were out of the game, they would feel the same as I do. Eddie Futch looked pretty foolish when Tyson handed Spinks his head in 91 seconds. He was pretty confident Spinks had the style to trouble Tyson. Ive never heard any so called expert use the word definitely in regards to a prime Tyson. He was a head to head monster for any fighter in history, there's just no denying that.

 

yes
i would favor ali,liston,holyfeld and foreman over him.holmes,louis,lewis are tied with tyson for me.

 

also buster douglas should be favored against tyson,i mean he absolutely boxed his ears off in his prime,and tyson was coming from one of his most impressive perfomance,knocking out williams in one round.

 

He was a head-to-head monster, yes.
Ok, "definitely best him" would be an extreme statement.
I took your statement to imply that Tyson should be about 50-50 or better with anyone, if you know anything about boxing. But I probably misunderstood you.

 

I certainly can't come up with a strong argument to keep him out of one. I feel similarly to ticar about him being tied with guys like Holmes, which is something coming from me, because I rate Holmes damned highly, both H2H only and my actual all-things-considered list.

Hey, you leave me out of that situation! :twisted:

 

:goodFor me too. They're the 3 i would favour over him and nobody else.

Though i'd also only favour only 3 fighters over the very best version of Frazier(Foreman, Tyson, Liston)

I'd favour quite a few over Holyfield(Holmes, Frazier, Lewis, Bowe, Ali)

After a round robin between all the greats i think it would end up something like

1) Ali
2) Lewis
3) Tyson
4) Frazier

 

Agreed.

 

Oh absolutely top 5. Actually Tyson is #1 or 2 for me.

 

This is a joke, right?

People, when doing these H2H estimations, please take both fighters in their prime. Not the Tyson of the Danny Williams fight.

 

This is my HW H2H list.

Based one a huge round robin between every fighter I consider to have been the best at some point.

Louis
Liston
Ali
Tyson
Holmes
Lewis
Klitschko
Foreman
Johnson
Frazier
Klitschko
Holyfield
Dempsey
Bowe
Marciano
Jeffries
Langford
Sullivan
Charles
Jackson
Tunney
Walcott
Wills
Baer
Schmelling
Patterson
Norton
McVey
Fitzsimmons
Moore
Spinks
Byrd
Bivins
Douglas
Johanneson
Rahman
Sharkey
Corbett
Willard
Braddock

note - just because one fighter is above another doesn't mean they'd beat them e.g. Liston > Ali because he beats more of these guys than ali does, despite losing to ali himself imo.

 

I really think Louis, Ali, Liston, Holyfield, and Foreman should be favourites over Tyson, to name five.
I'd also personally favour a prime Holmes, and I reckon Frazier and Marciano beat him too (but I accept those two are very controversial on this forum).

Going back further, there might be one or two others but there's no need to go far back.

So I'd have to say Tyson is NOT top 5 "h2h".
I'd favour him over a prime Lewis, and probably prime Bowe (that's a tough call), and Wlad Klitschko, and Floyd Patterson.

It's interesting that so many would pick Holyfield over prime Tyson but still have a prime Tyson in the top 5 h2h. The only real reason Holyfield is picked is because he actually DID get the opportunity to fight Tyson, though not a prime version.
I think Holyfield would beat a prime Tyson too. But I don't think Tyson is top 5 h2h.

Is Holyfield top 5 h2h ?

 

Doesn't matter if 5 might beat him. He might beat others that those 5 don't.

You're being too simplistic.

 

I would only put Lewis and Ali over him. He always beats Holmes. Any version of Foreman gets rocked, too, though I could be dissuaded. However, Tyson ain't no Joe Frazier lunch-pail guy. And it pains me to say it, but I don't think Louis can withstand his bombs long enough to land his own.

 

Maybe.
I understand the concept, but I can't say I've actually done a full fantasy fight 'round robin' with, say, a group of 20 or 30 of the most significant historical heavyweights .... that would be the only way to come up with a proper h2h list.

But Tyson wouldn't make my top 5, I do know that. Because I think guys like Louis, Ali, Liston, Holmes, Marciano and Dempsey would not be less favoured than Tyson against the 7 or 8 fighters I'd expect to beat him.

It's all totally guesswork and speculation, and estimated probabilities though.