Do you rank Povetkin higher than Wilder now?

No.

It was not banned when he openly took it.

That's kind of my point.

Let me pre-empt the follow up question:

"Oh, but he was busted for it after it was banned."

Vada banned it without knowing how long it stays in the system. Hell, even the manufacturer doesn't know, although they do say it can take a long time to work itself out. The amount detected was infinitesmal and way under the limit allowed. Let me repeat: it was under the acceptable threshold allowed.

Edit: to be clear: the amount was so small that it's quite possible that it was released from shrinking fat cells from prior consumption.

 

Coffee is a PED in your eyes:

Herolgee "This - even limited effects are cheating."

https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...r-than-wilder-now.610127/page-5#post-19277446

Luckily for me you're a doofus and don't possess the knowledge to maintain a logical framework for an argument. You don't know how to prove points in a debate, nor can you supply evidence for your hypotheses. All in all, your only value is in being a wall for me to bounce stuff off.

 

Many people forget how one-sided Povetkin's loss to Klitchko was. And this was in Russia not Germany or Ukraine! And he is much older now. Can someone explain to me how one gets a title shot by beating David Price?! Come on. Price is not even on Chisora's level. And Ortiz was one of the most avoided HW in recent years. You say Wilder has a weak chin?!?! Only a fool can say that about a guy with 40-0 record. Wilder has tremendous confidence, awkward style and a huge punch. So yes I rate him higher than Povetkin. Wilder is an elite HW. Povetkin was an elite HW 5 years ago but to still be considered one, he needs to put in a huge performance against AJ.
Wilder vs Povetkin is not out of the picture. Interest is there so that fight could be made in say 2019 regardless of what happens in the division by then. Cheers.

 

Meldonium permanent changes in blood vessels, coffee doesnt.

medical degree, ok, keep it up, see how far your stance takes you, np.

 

World number two Andy Murray has stated that Maria Sharapova should face a ban from the game over her failed drugs test in January.

This content is protected

 

Yes caffeine does improve performance I've experienced that on long runs and it's a common component within all pre-workout supps. But caffeine has in the past been on WADA's prohibited list and is still tested for by WADA to monitor any signs of abuse in athletes that could warrant it being put back on it's prohibited list.

Someone having a good meal before a event will gain an athletic performance over someone who doesn't should food be banned for athletes? Yes I just used reductio ad absurdum but normally ingested substances like food or caffeine are quite different to pharmaceutical drugs. There's a big difference between having a strong espresso before an event and taking pharmaceutical drugs, in regards to possible purpose, benefits and health risks to athletes.

 

Good. Now you can move to step 2:

Provide evidence of this

and

Step 3: Demonstrate how these changes are beneficial

Carry on.

Are you claiming that you have a medical degree?

If so, then:

Step 2:

Prove it

Meanwhile, I'm actually a Nigerian oil billionaire with a 10 inch wanger and a penthouse full of hoes. I need a trustworthy partner for a multi million dollar deal involving diamonds. Please send your cv to

This content is protected

.

 

Meldonium is not a prescription drug. It's available over the counter.

Here you can order it by the kilogram:

http://www.alibaba.com/premium/meld...MIie79qqGF3AIVypPtCh3IGwNiEAMYASAAEgLvy_D_BwE

So long, Dumbovelvet.

 

Of course caffeine improves performance but some people are making the case that taking a non-banned substance for a performance gain is despicable and illegal. Should athletes drinking coffee before performing be subjected to scorn and accusations of cheating if coffee IS LATER ON prohibited?

In my view, no.

But that is the argument being made here.

Are they really? What if I take aspirin to block pain and reduce inflammation and possibly reduce recovery time? What if Mexican steak has performance enhancing properties?

I'm not convinced there. I reiterate my point: if a substance (or food) is not prohibited, then I don't have a problem with an athlete taking it. And one certainly can not lable them a dirty cheater if that substance should get banned LATER ON.

 

The article you linked to is full of bias in defense of tennis star maria Sharapova, The article doesn't even cite one single scientific study. That's USATODAY for you, as poor of a source as the dailymail.

The most telling and blatent part is the founder of the company that produces meldonium (ivars kalvins) coming out out to defend the drug (and Sharapova), suggesting it did not enhance performance.

This very same founder had previously authored an abstract to a sports science conference discussing all the benefits of meldonium for athletes a few years ago., including enhanced aerobic capabilities, endurance performance, and recovery!

Yes that's right the following quote is direct from a publication co authored by the founder of the company that produces meldonium himself! (ivars kalvins)

Seems the founder of the drug can't get his story straight, how convient for Maria Sharapova.

Page 59 for the original source of this above publication

https://www.researchgate.net/profil...cal-education-a-cross-cultural-evaluation.pdf


Additionally to this a peer review of the known scientific research on meladonim published in "The United States National Library of Medicine" which for those who don't know is operated by the United States federal government, is the world's largest medical library of all scientific studies, anything published there is by a scientist, not some journalist writing an article for a news publication.

These scientist themselves concluded the following benefits to Meldonium and cite each and every scientific study that proved it.

• Improved economy of glycogen: level of glycogen increased in the cells during the long-lasting exercise
• Increased endurance properties and aerobic capabilities of athletes
• Improved functional parameters of heart activity
• Increased physical work capabilities
• Increased rate of recovery after maximal and sub-maximal loads
• Activates CNS functions and protects against stress

Source

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5066279/

Not that i wish to create and appeal of authority but i do have a background in this field my self.

 

You are wrong.

They did cite a study, and I even highlighted it.

"In reviewing 8,320 urine samples, the study — which was funded by the Partnership for Clean Competition — found that 182 samples contained meldonium. At 2.2% of the sample, it was more than double the rate for any other drug on the list. While stating that the findings of meldonium in samples was not limited to a particular sport, the paper notes use of the drug was found to a greater extent in strength sports (67%) and endurance sports (25%). [...] While acknowledging evidence of meldonium’s performance enhancing effects is “limited,” the study concluded that since the drug was not being used primarily for therapeutic reasons it was “evidently being used with the intention to either improve recovery or enhance performance.”

A guy trying to sell something exaggerates? Surely it can't be!

And yet, I have still not seen any double blind clinical trial that can definitively say that meldonium increases stamina or other performance aspects by X% over not taking it, or taking a placebo.

Nice link. I especially liked this from it:

"Mildronate and its metabolites are not included in the doping list; it does not provoke any undesired side effects."

^ That article addresses the methodology involved in detecting mildronat. Your bulleted list does not appear in it.

I am in actual fact, Elvis Presley, descended from Nibiru to reveal the True Word to believers. You may trust what I say

 

But apparently that "Coward" dare fight the "Ped" unlike Wilder who didn't even dare fighting Ortiz to begin with when he heard he was on heart medicine lmao

 

He`s fought better opposition so i`d have to say yes. You have to give Povetkin credit for being prepared to get in the ring with AJ unlike Wilder.

 

Not sure how you can avoid someone you was signed to fight to be honest.

Anyway, I did rate him higher but the Ortiz win puts Wilder above him for me as it's been a while since Pov has got a good win.

N.B I would have backed Povetkin to beat Wilder had the fight gone ahead

 

Exaggerate's? how does the founder of the drug go from saying this....

To suddenly out of the blue completely and utterly back tracking and saying it has ZERO performance enhancing effects conveniently at the same time the drug comes to the attention of the world media in regards to five-time grand slam champion Maria Sharapova and call's for his drug to be banned? Do you think the company founder wants his drug banned? That's the last thing he want's, do you know the only way it was never going to be banned? that's right if it had ZERO performance enhancing effects, how convenient! He just exaggerating doe.

A total of 3,625 athletes tested positive for meldonium in 2015 ALONE, This is just the number of people who were caught, that does not include all the ones who didn't and all the ones who are not even tested . A ban on meldonium would be loss of THOUSANDS of his clients, If that's not a motive to drastically back track on your initial statement of your drug having all of these beneficial effects, to suddenly claiming it has zero effects i don't know what is! The athletes using the PED will know the obvious performance benefits it has on them and would continue to use it.

This same guy also told the BBC that if the drug is banned "We will see many deaths on the field," athletes “will not be able to take the drug in the future” their bodies will “no longer” be capable of coping with lack of oxygen to the cells during sporting events."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03m251x

This is clearly a desperate man attempting to say and do anything to not have his drug banned.

I am even not sure what point you are attempting to make with this quote?

"Mildronate and its metabolites are not included in the doping list"

That is great news to all the athletes that wish to use his drug that he has admitted has performance enhancing benefits, they can consume the drug and at that time none of the ingridents were on the banned list, Amazing!

"it does not provoke any undesired side effects"

Again no idea why you have quoted this, no athlete wants a drug that comes with "undesired effects" undesired effects would be performance inhibiting.

While there is a lack of clinical research on Meldonium directly in athletes ( since the drug was not original designed for athletes the exact same way anabolic steroids were never designed for athletes) there are a number of studies that suggest that it may be very effective as a PED, All of the current studies on meldonium are on patients with medical issues and animal studies, However like the rest of the PED's used in sports the same effects are repeated in healthy individuals aka athletes. These are just a few studies i have manged to find.



"In conclusion, 90-day administration of meldonium improved sexual performance and sperm motility of boars and it also increased concentration of testosterone in blood serum"

This was an animal study and like many animal studies the same results are repeated when a follow up study is conducted in humans, Anabolic steroids increase the testosterone in mammals like they do in humans, so while this is not definitive proof, based on other testosterone studies in humans and mammals Its reasonable to assume that Meldonium would do the same.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23238051


"Patients in the Mildronate 1000 mg group showed a remarkable increase in the mean change in the total exercise time"

This study was done on people with heart disease, The group that took 1000mg of mildronate experienced a remarkable increase in exercise time"

Conveniently Maria Sharapova claimed to have heart problems.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22186118



"Another study showing increased exercise duration in from increased blood flow and oxygen to the heart in patients with Myocardial ischemia" again these are patients with preexisting medical issues but it is plausible that an increase in oxygen and blood flow would be repeated in a study done on healthy people just like all of the other peds desgined to treat other conditions have the same effect on healthy people. This study also shown the level of free fatty acids in the meldonium group was significantly lower than that in the control group meaning it enabled the body to run predominantly on carbohydrates which is the bodys preferd source of fuel"

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25177815

"
increased exercise tolerance with the normalization of reaction to physical stress in
patients with displazia
"

Another study in patients with a totally different condition, same results,

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25177785

Maximum increase in performance of rats.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26601841

Increase of physical working capacity among highly qualified judokas

Unable to find the full text for this one but yet another study that showed increased performance in highly qualified judokas

https://www.researchgate.net/public...rking_capacity_among_highly_qualified_judokas


99% of all peds repeat the same results in patients with medical conditions and healthy individuals, this drug simply has not thus far been tested in healthy people the chances of it not having similar effects in healthy people like every other ped is extremely slim.