Does anyone put Canelo over Barrera, Morales & Marquez...?

I don't have a problem with a few things.

Rehydration clauses are only a bad thing when the opponent is clearly drained. In a case where both fighters make the weight, and neither normally rehydrate to above the given limit, then I don't care. But when it's making people fight like Zombies, that's an issue.

I don't have a massive issue with catchweights, again for the reasons above. If someone wants to ease into a weight and doesn't want to immediately jump say, 10lbs, fair enough. So long as a title isn't at stake. I don't mind if both parties make the weight and aren't bothered by it. Again, so long as there isn't a rifle at stake. I hate it when it's being used like a rehydration clause, or being used to duck people.

 

Well I didn't see anywhere near the kind of complaining in those instances that we've see in response to De La Hoya talking about Canelo fighting GGG at 155. It's like a supposed theoretical draining of GGG to 155 that never ended up happening is seen as worse than when that kind of thing actually happened to other fighters. But that's good that you see how wrong that was, so you clearly see my point. As you know, I dislike catchweights, always have, especially in title fights. So we're on the same page there. I never wanted to see Canelo vs GGG at 155, because GGG was a true Middleweight. But for Khan 155 was acceptable to me because he was coming up from lower rankings and Canelo could safely make 155 which is essentially Light Middleweight Canelo's weight. But to drain an actual Middleweight down is a completely different story.

I agree that Mayweather's win over Canelo is tainted, that it wasn't a fair fight and for comparison purposes that shouldn't be considered a loss for Canelo, especially when people are arguing that some of Canelo's wins shouldn't count for far less or that he should have more losses. You can't have it both ways. And none of Canelo's wins were tainted like Mayweather's win over Canelo was, due to a catchweight that severly impaired his opponent and made it easier to win. None of Canelo's wins were tainted like Pac's win over Cotto, which was fought at a 145 lb catchweight. What about Mayweather's win over Marquez. They agreed to a catchweight then Floyd didn't adhere to the catchweight. So right there Mayweather is down to only 48 wins. Was fighting Conor McGregor a real win? Many don't consider it a real fight. Mayweather's down to only 47 wins. Did Mayweather really beat Pacquiao? Pac-Man was injured, and Mayweather used an illegal IV. That win don't count either. Just like that, now Mayweather only has 46 real wins, same as Calzaghe. The rest were tainted right.

It's sad that you have convinced yourself that he has resorted to any of the kind of tricks that Mayweather, Pacquiao, or Cotto played. What annoys me is that, unlike Mayweather, Pacquiao, or Cotto who did drain fighters and don't ever get called out for it, Canelo gets accused of doing what they did, only problem is he never actually drained a fighter or win a fight with the kind of advantages that Mayweather, Pacquiao, or Cotto imposed on their opponents.

Canelo is legitimately great, but you and others continue to act like he isn't by making claims that are blatantly un-true, while ignoring other fighters who have done far worse, like Mayweather, Pac, Cotto, Ward etc who have fought drained and unhealthy fighters which are viewed as career definining wins. And it's not just fake claims of Canelo demanding catchweights or rehydration clauses while ignoring the fact that Canelo was moving up substantially in weight when these things happened. It's also your claims of suspect judging when really it's just you being in denial about how well Canelo did like when he fought GGG, and you not coming to terms with what happened and resorting to claiming robbery or suspect judging when the judging by in large was acceptable for the most part. No single judge who saw the fight so wrong was able to change the result in any of Canelo's matches. Byrd could have scored that fight a draw instead of 10-2 Canelo and it still would have been declared a draw. CJ Ross could have had Canelo beating Mayweather 10-2 or Mayweather beating Canelo 12-0 and Mayweather still would have won. Doesn't mean you can't complain when you disagree with a judge, but don't let that detract from a fighter's greatness. JCC being gifted a draw vs Sweet Pea doesn't make JCC any less great. Judging cannot in any way shape or form be blamed on a fighter.

 

@BCS8 ...better get your reading glasses and a cup of coffee....10 thousand words of nonsense to shift through...

 

You complain a lot. Grow up and learn to talk boxing with the best, rather than cry and run away when pressed.

 

That would make sense if dude wasn’t already in the middle of random testing, at the end of the day the same organization that tested him VADA is the same one who said it was an accident I don’t see how you take one piece of information and completely ignore the next fact that comes after it.. I get it though when you a hater you gotta pick and choose what fits your narrative

 

Lancy Pants ia walking contradiction. We all know that by now.

 

"Convinced myself" Everybody knows he does this. You have admitted it. You realise that if anybody is 'convinving themself' of anything it's you, right? Let's not forget, folks, that Shadow is a legit flat-earther. Talk about 'convincing themselves' of something

That's literally a lie. See https://www.boxingforum24.com/threa...a-morales-marquez.664114/page-7#post-20931968

You have progressed from contradicting yourself in a post to a single sentence. Seek help. Mental help.

 

When has Canelo drained a fighter, made his opponent unhealthy and gained an unfair advantage over an opponent through catchweights in Title Fights like Pac did with Cotto, Mayweather did with Canelo, Cotto did with Martinez, Geale, etc?

Give me specific examples. Rehydration clauses aren't in the same boat as catchweights, as I'm guessing you'll cite the rehydration clauses vs Fielding or Kovalev. In no way can you make a case that those were in the same ballpark as Mayweather draining Canelo to 152, Pac draining Cotto to 145, Dawson coming down a full weight class to 168 to fight Ward, Cotto draining Martinez to 159, Cotto draining Geale to 157, etc. Each of those were way worse than a rehydration limit with no catchweight. If rehydration limits were so bad, then every IBF title fight throughout history where rehydration limits are standard would be as bad as draining a fighter in a catchweight. You know you can't in good conscious make that argument.

It's not a contradiction. Take notes - in each instance where there was a catchweight, it was either to the benefit or demand of Canelo's opponent (Khan, Cotto, Chavez Jr) or when there was a rehydration clause, it was a situation where Canelo was moving up a full weight class from his previous fight (Fielding, Kovalev). I would have rather there weren't rehydration clauses there, but you can't tell me those were in the same ballpark or anywhere near as bad as literally draining a fighter down from his normal weight to a catchweight making him unhealthy.

Now you can make the argument that Kovalev struggled a bit with the reyhdration limit, and would have been better had there not been one. That is a fair point, but it's still not anywhere near as bad as what Mayweather, Cotto, Pacquiao, or Ward did which was drag fighters down from their normal weight they had been fighting at to a catchweight.

Vs Jacobs, they agreed on a rehydration clause which Daniel Jacobs complained about, but he ended up not coming close to making the rehydration limit, which had he not complained to the IBF and got the rule changed for unification fights, would have caused him to not be eligible to win the IBF Title that night like he wasn't elgiiuble to win the IBF title vs GGG for not making the rehydration limit then, which you and many GGG fans complained about, giving Jacobs arguably an unfair functional weight advantage vs GGG. We need to be consistent if we're going to complain about a rehydration limit when it's required by the IBF, vs Jacobs getting the rule changed so he wouldn't have to abide by it.

Jacobs complaining about the normal, standard IBF rehydration limit vs GGG got the IBF rule changed for unification fights, but it's still a rule in normal IBF title fights. There's no grounds for him to complain about it vs Canelo since 1) had Jacobs not ignored it vs GGG and got the rule changed, it would have been required vs Canelo and 2) he ended up ignoring it anyway and coming in way over, which arguably put Canelo at a disadvantage for an IBF Title fight, since the IBF's purpose of their reyhdration limits is to prevent a fighter like Jacobs from having an unfair functional weight advantage on the night of the fight, which is precisely why you and others were upset at him when he didn't make it vs GGG. So you can't argue that Jacobs was limited by the rehydration clause vs Canelo because he didn't come close to making it. If anything Canelo fans and GGG should be the one complaining that Jacobs didn't comply with the IBF rule regarding rehydration limits and actually got the rule changed so he can have massive functional weight advantages in unfications and still win the IBF Title.

Rehydration limits are very debatable as far as whether they are a good thing or a bad thing, and whether allowing bigger fighters to ignore them is fair to the other fighter. I personally would rather there not be rehydration limits at all, but the IBF obviously disagrees and has a history of requiring rehydration limits. However you feel about rehydration limits, in no way shape or form can you argue that they are anywhere near as bad as what Mayweather, Pacquaio, Cotto, or Ward did to much biggrer fighters making them agree to drain themselves to a catchweight. That's the point, and I would hope that you stop trolling and really start understand the difference between catchweights and rehydration and why catchweights that drain a fighter are much worse and much less justifiable especially in Title fights.

 

Read the rest of your post.

Everybody but you sees it for what it is.

 

You're deflecting. Rehydration limits for much bigger fighters when a much smaller fighter is moving up a full weight class to meet him at their weight are nowhere near as bad or as dangerous to a bigger fighter than requiring a bigger man to agree to a crippling catchweight below the weight limit the bigger man had been fighting at. If they were, then why would the IBF require them for Title fights?

I don't know why you can't grasp this basic concept. Because you've demonstrated that Mayweather's win over Canelo was tainted due to the ridiculous catchweight that gave Mayweather an unfair advantage. There's no such unfair advantage each time the IBF rules require a 10-lb rehydration limit. That's to prevent a fighter like Jacobs from having an unfair functonal weight advantage the night of the fight vs smaller fighters who do not blow up in weight like GGG or Canelo.

 

It's using a weight limit to inhibit the performance of another fighter.

That was scrapped after Jacobs eschewed the IBF belt and ballooned up to cruiserweight while Golovkin could not. Note that Canelo limited Jacobs' rehydration in order to advantage himself.

If there was no advantage to Canelo limiting the rehydration of his rivals then why would he do it? I don't know why you can't grasp this basic concept. Canelo's wins are tainted.

 

There are two sides to this argument. On the one side, it's argued that it's unfair for a fighter to balloon up in weight drastically overnight to have a massive functional weight advantage on fight night. The other side of that argument is that you're limiting how much the naturally bigger guy can be on fight night after making weight. I've made it clear that I'd rather not have a rehydration clause, but at the same time I also don't like that Jacobs crying about it after fighting GGG caused the IBF to change their rule for unifications. No fighters should be able to cry about not being allowed to balloon up in weight and get the IBF to allow them bypass their normal rules. Jacobs did that which is why I had a problem with, and you had a problem with it too which is why you criticized him when he didn't make the rehydration limit for GGG. If there was never an IBF rehydration limit, and Canelo's side just out of nowhere insisted on limiting Jacobs, that would be one thing. Context is important here, and Jacobs getting the rule change needs to be understood if we're going to be real about this.

Canelo didn't limit Jacobs rehydration. Both sides agreed to the clause. Both Canelo and Jacobs have been accused of ballooning up in weight too much after making weight, and many have argued that Canelo should have to limit his rehydration after making weight, particularly when he fought at 154 and was accused of being a Light Heavyweight on fight night.

Jacobs complained to the IBF and got them to change their long standing rule, but only for unification fights, not for IBF-only title fights. Why did Jacobs do that? Duhh so he could give himself an advantage since he balloons up in weight. Why are you OK with Jacobs complaining to the IBF getting the rule changed for unifications? The same rule that was enforced when Jacobs fought GGG that you said gave Jacobs an unfair advantage, and now you're OK with that rule being changed when he fights Canelo? Consistency please. De La Hoya probably was upset that Jacobs crying about the IBF limit caused them to change the rule for unifications. Why should Jacobs be allowed to skirt around long standing rules and give himself an advantage that other fighters in the past didn't have and still be able to win the IBF title vs Canelo after he couldn't vs GGG?

Imagine if Canelo's side complained to the IBF about the rehydration limit and got the rule changed. You would consider Canelo a weight bully for eliminating the IBF rehydration limit. If that happened, don't you think GGG and Abel Sanchez would be upset at the rule being changed? Don't you think GGG and Sanchez would insist on a rehydration clause to limit how much Canelo rehydrates? You and many other GGG fans have made the exact same argument over the years about how Canelo rehydrates too much and has too much of a functional weight advantage without rehydration limits.

Canelo was subject to the same rehydration limit that Jacobs was. Jacobs ended up coming in way over the rehydration limit anyway, same as he did vs GGG. THe only difference was vs Canelo, since he got the rule change, he was still allowed to fight for the IBF title. Don't you remember when Canelo was fighting at 154 and people would say he rehydrates to 175 and was essentially a Light Heavyweight on fight night. All this proved is that Canelo didn't balloon up in weight as much as people claimed he did.

At the end of the day, it was Jacobs complaining that got the IBF to change their rule for unifications. Jacobs complained to give himself an advantage. Canelo's side simply insisted that both sides agree to the normal IBF limit, as was the case when GGG fought Jacobs, to which you and many GGG fans criticized Jacobs for not complying with. You can't have it both ways.

 

Jacobs did not bypass the IBF rule. He simply didn't fight for the belt while GGG did.

Yes he did. Jacobs did not want the rehydration limit. He was a worse fighter as a result. Much worse than the version that Golovkin fought.

Canelo agreed to the Mayweather clause to get the fight. Does that make it ok? Does that mean Floyd beat the best version of Canelo? No. No it does not.

Quotes. You are making no sense here.

No.

No.

No.

This is just much writing to try and justify Canelo weakening Jacobs before their fight. Fact is there is an asterisk next to the Jacobs win, just like many other Canelo wins.

 

I really like the 10lb rehydration clause Canelo has used. And the same the IBF enforces.

 

Jacobs did not do the second day weigh in while Golovkin did.

Jacobs fought for the IBF title in his previous fight, meaning he had the same 10lb rehydration rule. The IBF mandates it.

Canelo´s team were the one who publicly made the offer that they were willing to do a catchweight. There was this idea/promotional angle that Floyd was scared of him.
Hell, if you go back in time on this forum, you will see threads about how Floyd is scared of Alvarez and his size.


The reason that the IBF does not mandate their 10lb rehydration rule for unifications is because of the shenanigans Jacobs pulled with Golovkin.
So had the IBF not changed their rules for unifications, Jacobs would have had to follow that rule when he faced Alvarez.

There is no asterisk next to Alvarez-Jacobs. It´s only there for those who want it there. It´s meaningless.