Does size count even just a little bit?

Yes exactly.

For me Rocky is a top 100 p4p ATG (that being said so is Klitschko, but lower down).

Once you decide who is the more skillful you then have to consider the size and style aspect.

Rocky has to get inside to beat Wlad, bit Wlad is quicker than him and stronger than him and will tie him in knots as long as his ref allows him.

From range Wlad will pick him off.

Does Rocky lose because he's not as good? No. He loses because he's not big enough to compete.

That doesn't go for every SHW he matches with, but Wlad perfected the art of beating the smaller man.

In his decade of dominance he fought a huge variety of high ranked styles and none overcame him. It was only when someone could beat him on the outside his reign ended.

 

In the heavyweight division definitely. The great legend s of the past such as dempsey, Louis and marciano would be giving up so much weight to there opponents nowadays it would be like different weight division s. U don't get many light heavyweight s or cruisers stepping up to the top floor and been successful. That is why there are weight division s, to make it fair and equal

 

As some one mentioned a more skillful but much smaller fighter more often than not will lose to the more heavier and bigger guy. That's why the heavy s from sixty, seventy years ago would not be a threat to the modern day heavy s

 

joe frazier vs George foreman is a good example of why size matters

 

Size absolutely matters. "A good big man always beats a good smaller man," is a statement repeated over and over again for good reason: because it's almost always true. However, its not the end all be all. There are exceptions like Duran Leonard 1 and Holyfield Bowe. And let's not forget that past it Evander gave an atg prime Lennox all he could handle in their 2nd despite Lewis' massive size advantages.

 

It could also be a good example of taking an Olympian too lightly and/or a demonstration of one fight too many.

S.T Gordon v Berbick
Satterfeild v Valdes
Haye v Valuev

Are just some examples of smaller fighters beating bigger men with no real extra special talent.

 

have you watched their second fight when frazier was serious about fighting George

 

Yes, poor old Joe. If he was never going to be the same after the first Ali fight then from what was left of him after that he was also never going to be the same after Foreman. Then, From that point, what ever was left of Joe went into the final fight with Ali.

So Frazier was three times reduced from the man who beat Jerry Quarry, the man Foreman would not fight.

Even With the right tactics Joe never was going to have enough resistance or reactions to cope with Foreman a second time when he had already been through three career damaging fights.

Styles making fights is just one flimsy factor. Career timing is huge by comparison.

 

Which World light heavyweight champions in the last 20 years have stepped up to heavyweight and not become at least a top 10 contender. I can only really think of guys like Moorer, Jones Jr, Toney, Tarver, Adamek and most of these were usually old and past it by this time. Are there examples of others who have stepped up and failed?

 

It's not a good example.Maybe seemingly the height matters but Frazier-Foreman fights proved the POWER
matters.Don't forget Frazier could beat Ali who was a nearly Foreman sized hw.
But what about the Tyson 5'10" vs 6'3"/6'4"/6'5" fighters like Smith,Tucker,Biggs,C.Williams,Golota,Ruddock,Holmes etc . ?

 

...well Haye has the quickest hands at heavyweight since Tyson (barring Roy), so there's that.

 

But if size was everything it would not matter how fast hayes hands were. Larry Donald and Holyfield also beat Valuev just as clearly only they did not get the decision.

 

Size matters a great deal, especially when the fighters know how to use it and even more so when they're allowed to get away with excessive clinching.

If a man can time the clinch he nullifies all attempts at infighting making the fight a one range contest.

However not ever y SHW has mastered the clinch, only Wlad has imo.

Every other SHW has been in a competitive fight or losing fight with a CW sized fighter.

Even Wlad himself was stopped by Brewster when his one mis timed jab clinch combo left an opening for the left hook. So even the master of jab and grab is only one solid punch from losing the fight.

If size was a bigger factor than style Valuev would have been the goat.

Size is a variable, not a constant which is another factor. Fighting Guillermo Jones early in his career and Winky Wright would have tooled him, fighting him a few years later and he destroys Winky.

 

look I don't really care, you don't need to right paragraph for over one sentence that I posted some time ago so just leave me alone I don't actually care if its a bad example and I don't care what you think about It posted it a while ago and don't need to argue with people about it was a pretty ****in stupid comment just the first thing that came to mind I admit that

 

The answer to this thread is "at heavyweight it did not used to matter,,but it does now"

All the stuff that used to give the better heavyweight the advantage has been eradicated now. Not all the time but a lot more of the time than ever before a better HW can be outsized right out of a fight. That never used to be the case at HW.


It used to be that a giant compensated too much strength in search of speed. But that's all changed with steroids. You could be big but you could not be that big and that good and still be natural. Big guys with skill did not happen with traditional methods.