doez Zhang hit harder than George Foreman ?

Either incarnation of Foreman would beat the **** out of Zhang. Zhang is slow. He just looked fast for a few rounds vs Joyce, who was easy to root for.

 

Foreman.

And by a very long way. He'd have killed Zhang.

 

People will say Zhang because of his size but size alone isn't the deciding factor when it comes to power. Valuev was huge even compared to the big guys now and he was an average puncher, while Haye was a small heavyweight brutally KO'ed Chisora which the huge Vitali couldn't do. Lewis also never had Holyfield off his feet but the much smaller Cooper had Evander badly hurt.

But Zhang obviously hits very hard and his power is amplified by the fact he's a counter puncher. In terms of raw power Foreman's shots might be heavier and harder but Zhang might be the more explosive one punch KO puncher because he lands when you are in the worst position to take a shot like the Joyce KO, he caught Joyce while he himself was throwing and totally unprepared to absorb a shot.

But right now Foreman's power is more proven and tested. Let's see how Zhang's career plays and then reassess.

 

People here are too nostalgic. And small minded.

I see a 230 6'3 guy called "big" against a far bigger man.

Big bang it is.

 

Muricans desperate to hang on to their fading narrative.

Zhang absolutely would hit harder and he also wouldn't get KO'd by a featherfist HW like Ali.

But Foreman did demolish the bloated SMW Frazier. Sure, it took a bunch of KD's, but he did get there eventually, which is something Ali couldn't do. Golden Era Murica!

 

Anyone voting Foreman is a pure nostalgia lens fanboy. Zhang weighs 60lbs more than a prime Foreman. When did Foreman outright KO a 280lb iron chinned Olympian (essentially gold medalist, as Joyce beat Yoka)

 

Zhang hasn't always been perceived as this devastating puncher....I'm going to put it out there that he is on the Egg diet.

 

I’m also putting it out there that Joyce’s chin is a myth.

 

All the progressive modern boxing fans crying nostalgia, while absolutely failing to address any basic historical example of smaller or shorter men having granite chins or murderous power compared to some 6ft6 so called superheavyweights.

 

When did Foreman fail to stop a 6′ 0½ Andryi Rudenko?

People in this thread throwing around lbs and inches are just as bad as rose-colored glasses old-timers. Duhaupas stopped a 6′ 6½ 255lbs superheavyweight. Andry Ruiz knocked around a 6'6 250lbs behemoth. Ali Eren Demirezen halted a 6'6, 254lbs modern big guy. They must be such massive punchers. Except that they stopped Robert Helenius, Anthony Joshua, and Gerald Washington, whose chins are immensly suspect, and nowhere near the likes of Ali, Chuvalo, Foreman, Mercer, or Lyle. In a similar manner, one can rave about Uzcudun or Loughran going the distance against 6'6, 270lbs behemoth, except Primo Carnera was never a big puncher, but an outside boxer switching into a mauling, attrition style when needed. History has proven that chins and power ought to be compared on individual basis. Both Liston and Shavers, 6 or 6'1 guys are in another realm as far as punching power goes even compared to some bigger modern fighters. Size is a decent and relatively reliable metric to predict punching power and durability among large groups of fighters; to make an educated guess essentially. In over a century of boxing however, when discussing exceptional individuals, a particular scrutiny that goes beyond reliable generalization is required.

Comparing their most durable victims is a good start (Joyce has a fantastic chin and took shots from Dubois before; on another note one might criticize how easily an actual accurate puncher can land on the sweet spot on the chin or the nose) but Foreman is immediately demeaned into a middleweight beating cruiserweight. Stopping George Chuvalo and making Ron Lyle collapse into the ground like a dead man (despite him enduring 6 rounds of all out assault from Earnie Shavers and getting up from the canvas to eventually stop him) are probably the most apt comparisons to the Joyce stoppages. You can also add him carrying his power into later rounds, as he was the only man to ever stop the outstanding defensive technician Gregorio Peralta in the 10th, despite him surviving the likes of Lyle (times two) and Bonavena on his feet. Other than you can go by an eye test (Foreman toppling people with casual looking blows or hurting people out without proper leverage; fighters outright quitting against him) and accolades:

I) Holyfield, who fought Lewis, Bowe, Cooper, Moorer, Rahman (Oh, and 7ft, 300lbs Valuev ) was worried Foreman knocked all his teeth out and named him the hardest hitter he ever faced during his career.

II) Chuvalo named him as one of the two hardest punchers he has ever faced. He was in the ring with the likes of Williams, Frazier, Durelle, and was widely regarded as a bulletproof, exceptionally granite chin.

III) He is consistently listed as one of the hardest punchers in the history of the sport.

IV) Wepner said Foreman hit him so hard his orbital bone broke and part of it was sticking out quarter of an inch.

V) Moorer reportedly having 36 stitches inside his mouth and a broken mouthpiece according to Teddy Atlas, both result of being hit with a blow casual enough that people around the world actually suspected a dive.

You could go on and on, making an argument for both fighters, but I am of opinion that there is certain level when punchers become murderous, and you can only reasonably argue how well they applied said power, while arguing about individual punch may become futile. It's especially easy to highball or poke holes in every individual case: Shavers had numerous accolades and extremely high praises, but one can point out that his most notable knockout streak were against small men. Zhang is a monstrous, hard punching fighter who derailed the Joe Joyce hypetrain, but Juggernaut is also exceedingly easy to hit, and Zhang failed to stop Hrgovic, Rudenko (both great chins) and some of his opponents early on in his career. And so on, and so on.

 

The rose tinted goggles are in full swing here

People think a 240 pound old fat man punches harder than a 290 pound....old fat man.

 

Ironically 60's/70's had two examples of smaller men trying to stop Frazier's reign over the glamour division. Jimmy Ellis found himself suffocating in the lower divisions and succesfully moved from the middleweight to heavyweight, actually carrying respectable power, and Bob Foster, a career light-heavyweight, tried to add another crown to his collection. Both broke apart hard against physicality and devastating power of Frazier.

What's next, bloated supermiddleweight Mike Tyson? Frazier won majority of his fights by knockout, stopping the likes of Mathis, Chuvalo (George claimed to have been damage goods in the fight, due to orbital bone injury), and making post-exile Ali bend over and reel after a body shot and a left to the jaw, before eventually dropping him. If Frazier's fighting shape during a fifteen rounds era (while he was conditioned for the entire championship distance fought at a buzzsaw intensity) rarely went below 200 pounds, he sure as hell ain't even a blown up light-heavyweight.

/r boxing take, really.

 

250 to 260 was a far more comfortable weight for comeback Foreman. He went down to 235 for his fight against Quawi, but looked bleak, and stated it didn't work for him.

Substitute Zhang for Valuev or Carnera in this thread, and watch how literally nobody is going to try to argue the 7ft, 320lbs or 6'6 270lbs behemoths can outpunch him, in spite of their weight and height. People are certainly correct in presuming Zhang is in Foreman's league as far as power goes, but I strongly disagree with how majority of users here attempt to support their case.

You of all people should argue how Wilder is one of the hardest punchers in history despite being more comfortable at 210-220lbs, turning himself into a 4 round fighter when he attempted to roid up to 240 with muscles for Fury-Wilder III. His athelticism, hip to shoulders ratio, fantastic Hearn-like leverage (6'7 actually helps here), and likely bone structure all contribute to the punching power (and it's not rocket science for anybody seeing punching power as more than mass, inches, and whatnot.)

 

I agree but it's not like Zhang is like Fury who clearly isn't a natural puncher despite his size.

Zhang clearly is a puncher (when he isn't gassed) and when he positions himself well. If we're going to talk pound for pound power maybe you can say George hits harder.

 

OMFG