Downplayed riddles : Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali

It appears to me that Cooper vs Ali is only available as highlights .
Sometimes it is even not enough to watch the full fight including the breaks between rounds to know the truth about it .
Do the highlights show Dundee cutting Ali's glove ? do you think Dundee was so eager to cheat at any cost that he did it just for cheat's sake ?
Or was he simply not knowing what he was doing and why ?

The **** u wrote about the Foreman fight is a boxing myth .
It is obvious how Ali made use of d situation in d ring ("ring generalship") , and why it worked for him .
Tight ropes & normal weather -> Foremean stops Ali .
Strict refereeing and a relatively honest trainer -> Cooper stops Ali .
No corruption -> Ali loses both Cooper and Doug Jones fights & does not get a title shot at Liston .

BTW , the highlights thing reminded me another thing : some ppl r keen on d old timers etc because all the evidence that they have from them r d highlights in which they sometimes look relatively good 2 themselves , u miss d boring parts , d inactivity parts , d stalling , clinching , spoiling , hugging , backpedalling , complaining 2d referee parts .
Hence they and u think that almost every guy filmed @ B&W was at least a very good fighter .

In d case of Cooper vs. Ali 1 misses d critical parts from it being highlights . D truth is at least written but u dismiss it as a "boxing myth" , while repeating a true boxing myth about something that is both written and has videotaped evidence (except from the pre fight parts of Dundee or his messengers accessing d ring) .

 

Ali was able 2 do what he did because of those ropes and later in d fight also due 2 d heat .
Dundee , King , Ali and who knows who also created those conditions and circumstances and chose them over other scenarios such as fighting in a normal place . It made d ultimate effect on d outcome and no rematch was given . Regardless of rematch or not , "The Rumble in The Jungle" was / is a meaningless fraud , that signifies nothing except that cheating sometimes pays off big time .

Dundee cut Ali's glove 2 buy him extra recovery time which he got-FACT.
Ali won due 2 cuts-FACT.
Cooper was a cutter/bleeder-FACT.
What does a cuts win prove ? that a man has a bad skin or cutman-FACT.

This thread is designed 2 give emphasis on d parts of d truth that u and your likes hate to c/hear .
The factors in Ali's career that are forbidden 2 mention .
The Cooper and Foreman fights are d proof that Dundee is comparable to Panama Lewis . U just don't know what else did he do and those who know will not tell . It is not beyond d realms of possibility that Dundee prepared black bottles or loaded some of his fighters' gloves , he certainly proved that he wasn't far from it , this 4 sure , if he did it or not , I guess he kept it hidden enough . And yes , Quarry was a cutter/bleeder as well , as well as some more of Ali's opponents . Liston was cut against him .
Others also .
There is already known evidence that Ali , Dundee and King were cheaters , each 1 in his own way . Is every thing that they did known and recorded and revealed 2 d public ? I suppose not . What I do know about them proves that they would not hesitate 2 cheat and go by all means necessary , just like Panama Lewis .

 

Ali sucked ass early in his career as well .. like vs Doug Jones and Henry Cooper .

If some1 thinks he looked brilliant or even just good vs George Foreman come 1974 , then I already explained why in a thread dedicated solely for that fight . The link to that thread is in d first post of this thread .

 

He didn't beat Doug Jones . Had it not 4d cheat , there was a realistic chance of Cooper stopping him , and if somehow he would have still survived without a cheat (hypothetical pro Ali assumption ) then d only way he could "win" against Cooper (who was far from a world beater by the way) was the way he "did" , unless he got KDd again , or stopped by Cooper , which at least Dundee , as evident by his deeds , considered as a realistic scenario .

Ali didn't go downhill after Foreman , he never was that much uphill , he somehow lasted d distance with Frazier , but then he did just a bit better than Buster Mathis did b4 him . While I still don't know about anything illegal about Frazier #1 , Dundee's acts combined with Ali's acts and d testosterone injections (which I don't consider as such a bad thing , but some people do) helped to save Ali's health and career in other fights 4 sure .
The point here is that if it wasn't 4 all d cheats made by Ali's team , Don King and Ali himself , his health would have deteriorated even quicker & he would have had more losses & draws even b4 it would have been evident , resulting in more of a journeyman's career 4 Ali .
The main difference between d Alis , Holmes' , Tysons' , Holyfields' and Lewis' is that they were allowed 2 cheat & foul , they were saved by d judges and d referees , while their opponents were usually at the opposite end of d same **** .
If Ross Puritty , George Chuvalo , Oliver McCall and Dominick Guinn got d same treatment while hurt in a fight / losing on scorecards / not ready 4 a major fight then people might have "seen them in a different light" , to make an explicit understatement .
But some need 2b d main stars and some need 2 do d second rated acting . This is how show business r .
So why not all agree that the greatest of all time was Mr. T ? I think he was sexier than Ali . He did his thing so well in "Undisputed" (I think) and in "The Bodyguard" and then in "T&T" , or whatever it was called , that series . he looked better on film even than Joe Louis did .
If going by known facts and truth , 1 must factor in factors like cheats , fouls and silenced criminal acts when asking 1self : would he have really won d fight without d help of this and that ?
Ali is only d greatest publicity act (AKA hypejob) d history of d sport has ever known . He entered d ring , but always could trust other people when it didn't or wouldn't go his way .
Cutting a prone to cut fighter when supposedly lesser men destroyed him for real .. this is not a real win 4 me .
And sometimes he even made d not so prone 2 cut fighters cut & bleed .
When Margachito did it 2 resto , ppl understood it only after d truth came out , but sometimes it never does .
It's like when some1 here accused Marchegiano of using loaded gloves , and no1 bothered 2 reply .. was he right ? I don't know .

 

Face it , if Ali got his 2 losses vs Jones and Cooper like others would , then he would have been denied of his title shot , at least not at the time he got it .
And then old Sonny , whom never was that great himself , btw , would have been exposed by some1 else , IDK , maybe Chuvalo , maybe Bob Cleroux , maybe even Frazier (Liston would have been really old if no1 else would have dethroned him until then) , and Ali might have still gotten a shot vs. 1 of them , but at least I know how his 1st fights with Chuvalo and Frazier went , and he didn't win them in reality ! D doctors in d hospital who took care of Ali would have agreed with it , especially if they would have had a comparative examination of Chuvalo right after their fight . So Ali might have still received a title shot but lost it , or he might have also won , maybe against Cleroux (just maybe) and would have had a short lived reign until he met Chuvalo / Frazier .
And then Big George came in2 play , and at least I know how / why Ali got his "W" over George .. not 4 me .
But Ali's management and team >>> Frazier's , Chuvalo's & Foreman's all d way , at least in terms of showbizz generalship ..