Very much correct. Perhaps Ayala may have matched or surpassed this if he wasn't a scumbag but as it stands Moore is far far more proven. The planned fight between those two would have been amazing. I'd slightly favor Moore as he was more proven, particularly his heart which was tested in fights against Weir, Kalule and Guiden one after the other. They were all well inside the Ring Top 10 and tho not immensely proven Weir and Guiden could bang a bit. So i know beyond a shadow of a doubt Moore could take it and then give it back and was willing to go to the well.
Duran by KO. Ayala was sloppy defensively and Duran would exploit that, especially since Ayala style was to stand right in front of you and come straight forward. Mario Maldonado almost KOed Ayala because of Ayala lax defense. Ayala had less experience against good fighters than Davey Moore, which is not going to turn out well against Duran. And all of Ayala's "bully" tactics (dirty fighting, intimidation) are not going to work on Duran and would likely just make him more determined.
Duran all the way. My guess is that a man like Ayala would bring out the beast in Duran. Two macho guys------but Duran would eventually pick him apart. Tony would come out smoking, but Duran would weather or meet the challenge. I am predicting this outcome on simply one aspect; Duran was a better fighter and if motivated would outbox a wild, undisciplined Tony A. The buildup would be interesting to watch. Only time I saw Duran look unmotivated in a big fight was SRL#3. And yes, even though he failed miserably --he came to fight Hearns
Good point on how stacked the JMs were as Ayala emerged (always fruitful to pull up the Ring Ratings). In '83 Ayala was #3 and the other top 5 were Hearns, Benitez, Moore and McCallum. Onward to '84 and there's Duran and Mugabi. Another thread made the apt association between the early sociopathic behavior of Tyson and Ayala and how it was enabled by wagon circling and payoffs (early Tyson numerous examples of female abuse and Ayala's major episode of severe beating of a teen gal in the drive-in bathroom). As to fighting the other top JMs, I entirely agree that Duran owns Ayala via a Moore-like beat down while enjoying himself immensely and sneering / taunting throughout per the mega-mouthing Ayala would have done in advance. Hearns? An absolute Tommy-Roberto redux. Otherwise IMO Moore would have been Ayala's Holyfield and McCallum his Buster Douglas (purely in the sense of how the fight played out). Benitez? In his prime in '82 when he lopsided beat Duran thus all factors support ditto with Ayala. Mugabi? As sturdy and powerful as they come @ 54 and of course consider his show against (a battle-worn) Hagler @ 60 (there again I think Ayala has a Tyson-Holyfield experience). Finally, very possible Curry at his best neutralizes Ayala for a UD and Julian Jackson stretches him with a right early in the heat of an immediate and non-stop slugfest (that one for sure what Ang Dundee called a Go-No-Go "one guy or the other goes"). Long story short? Ayala F'd up at JUST the right time as far as sparing himself numerous beatings and the complete implosion of his ring status and legacy. Bear with me but you can wonder if he at least sub-consciously took himself out of circulation b/c he knew it was game over and about to get real ugly. If anyone can suggest a comparable self-sabotage in ring history--by timing and extreme nature--please advise.
trying to play dirty with super welterweight Duran is like throwing a lighter to a campfire lmao it simply fails
At some point in the build up, this gets nasty and then a fired up Duran is fighting for Latin pride and machismo bragging rights. If that was against a slickster it might not be so good but against a green come forward type ,,, it'd be a massacre. A worse beating than Davey Moore took. Ayala's heart was never tested. Let's give him the benefit and say he is prepared to take his lumps. That midriff wasn't taut. Duran butchers it. I'm going Roberto in an 8 round brutalizing.
Duran would butcher Ayala. Would ruin him (like he did to Davey Moore), wouldn´t be surprised if he quit. Hearns, Julian Jackson and Mugabi would destroy him quickly. Lucky to see the 2nd round against either of them. Would be brutal. McCallum would slowyly take him apart. Benitez would outbox him. Davey Moore was very hittable but incredibly brave, never stopped fighting, good combination puncher. Ayala was a great on top fighter, except in the Mario Maldonado slugfest where he got up from a hard knockdown. Maldonado might not have a very glossy record but was a decent fighter, beat Buster Drayton twice. Tony quit twice in his post prison career, against Yory Boy Campas when the Mexican warrior didn´t fold and wore him out and then in his last fight against gutsy but limited Anthony Bonsante. Would a younger Torito do the same against never say die Davey Moore? Wouldn´t be surprised. Think it would have been one of the best fights in the light-middle division.
This is spot on . Enjoyed reading this and Dubblechins great posts on the subject. Kathy and Dan Duva come off very badly . I'd agree Ayala self sabotaged. If the scumbag had fought in 83,84,85 it just gets worse and worse and I dont think Ayala had the cojones to take too many beatings. John Mugabi wouldve knocked him out in 85.
I agree that the Duran of Moore or Cuevas rakes the best known version of Ayala (as opposed to a mythical potential one who might have emerged if he hadn’t been a ******). Problem is, we never saw that version of Duran in 1982. In fact, that is probably Duran’s worst year on record until you get to a couple of late-career years where he lost to Pat Lawlor and William Joppy. In 1982, Roberto was in a complete funk. He quit against Ray Leonard in 1980, and returned the next year with a couple of (at best) so-so wins over Nino Gonzalez and Luigi Manchillo. In ‘82, he got completely outclassed by Wilfred Benitez, looked pretty hopeless vs Kirkland Laing and closed out with a terrible winning performance vs British club fighter Jimmy Batten — I would say it was on the undercard of Pryor-Arguello I, but that would be glorifying it: Bob Arum, so disgusted by Roberto’s lack of conditioning/training, made it the walk-off fight AFTER the main event, not wanting Duran to be seen in such pitiful form on the broadcast and hoping patrons would exit the arena and leave as few eyewitnesses as possible. That date, incidentally, was one week before the scheduled Nov. 19 showdown with Ayala. Any version of the actual 1982 Roberto shows up vs Ayala and he’d get bullied into a decision loss by Tony. Duran rejuvenated himself over the next 2 1/2 months after Batten to beat Pipino, salvaging his career.
Duran would beat the crap out Ayala he does everything better than Ayala and then some. I watched a few Ayala fights a few years ago he was exciting and talented but had some glaring flaws aswell. I can't remember the name of the fighter but I see him get decked in one of his fights and was pushed pretty hard against a fighter that i don't believe was a top 10 contender. Duran by TKO in 8-10 rounds an aggressive come forward fighter like Ayala would be the perfect style for Duran to take apart.