ESB ATGs Muay Thai / KickBoxing fighters Thread

To be honest Flea I'm really just a Muay Thai guy who watches alot of international boxing, you know much more of the history of Thai international boxing , which is smoething I'm very interested to learn more about. Once they leave Muay Thai I only really follow the ones who are easy to follow on Thai TV etc. Although I have been a sparring partner for Thai converts to international as I have/had good hands.

Interms of "SAB" that means either stink or understand depending on intonation.

Cheeky Boy would be Dek Tulet. My missius isn't back yet but I'll get her to check and do the other thing.

 

Here you go:

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The other bits are jsut bascially saying the same thing and then it goes on to explain that there could be a problem with the sytem etc etc.

Sorry not what you were hoping for I'm sure. And she agrees with me about "sab" meaning understand or stinky depending on context and intonation.

 

Eh? It didn't show anything? There is a bio under the tabs, no?

As for my knowledge of international boxing I'm far more interested in your insights mate, one thing I hope to try and establish in the book is how the art of Muay Thai would influence the approach of an internaional boxer who is grounded in Muay Thai.

Saensak is an easy one, because he changed nothing! Even before he boxed he implemented few kicks and knees, and seems somewhat of a heavy handed sniper. He just clubbed his man down. There's an interesting documentary about him on YouTube, which sadly for me seems to be in a mix of Thai and Chinese But there's brief footage of Muangsurin testing the eaters in the Asian games, where he won gold. And Saensak talking about his career I suspect, as well as a great pic of him and Ali squaring up to each other for the cameras! I think that may've been at Ali-Inoki, where I've heard Muangsurin was a spectator and supposedly called Ali out! But it's just hear say at the mo', funny nonetheless.

 

The Thai's have a different approach to boxing, but, more often that not, are pretty tidy and technically refined.

You have your wannabe-Ali types like Sukhothai and Chitalada as well

And your awkward beasts like Muangsurin and the Galaxy Bros.

Such an intriguing nation of fighters, it's a daunting prospect!

 

I've heard Muangsurin was a spectator and supposedly called Ali out!

I love it!!:rofl

I'd love to have a look at that documentary, can you post the link?

Your right about the tabs, the second one down has links to loads of stuff. I'll get her to have a look tommorrow, what do you want her to do exactly, just give you the jist of what's there?

 

I struggle to think of a nation in the world that has so many licensed fighters and fights per capita.

You're book to be is a fascinating idea and one I'd love to read, although I’d say you need the next Manny to be from Thailand to make much dough out of it.

I think one of the main differences to other fighting nations is that they go into the gym very very young (we had 2 five year olds in our gym) and right from the start are professionals and are trained as such. No amateur programs. It’s true you do have a bit of amateur Muay Thai in Thailand for the king’s cup, but it’s tiny and those guys are young pros anyway.

However, when they convert over to international, many obstacles stand in their way and the difference in style of fighter you mentioned above I think is amplified because they have to unlearn so many habits form Muay Thai and learn so many new ones for Sakon. The amplification of different styles I think comes down to who can naturally adjust and who has the will to adjust. Some don’t see the necessity, some do but just can’t unlearn those old habits. I remember my friend Saohin he was obsessed with correcting his footwork to try to become a slick styled boxer, he was always practising in the gym to move his feet quicker, but the reality was he was a tough pressure fighter more akin to a Mexican. Some have more support from their gyms than others, good access to sparring and foreign alien training techniques are surprisingly not easy to access if you or your gym don’t play the right political game.

Anyway Flea, it’s a really interesting subject you’re looking at and if I can help let me know.

Sorry Vic to be going on about this in your Muay Thai ATG thread.

 

I'll have a look for the doc', title is in Thai and I stumbled on it on YouTube! I'll have a look.

As for the Borkorsor Wikipedia page, hopefully your missus can clear up a few of the translation inaccuracies we had a few pages before!

The post below is extremely insightful. Thanks mate, really good to get an insiders view of the scene :good

As for makin money from the book, I have already resigned to the fact I will lose money from it. Just hoping to capture these tales before they are lost forever and make sure these fighters get their dues :good

EDIT: FOUND IT!!!! 4:16 of the first video to see Saensak and Ali giving each other a stern look :yep

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1oZzb_n3WAQ&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O6CJX_veWw[/ame]

Bet there's some really interesting stuff in there for a fluent Thai speaker.

Here is som news pieces, I assume from around the time of his death. Still looks a dangerous old man, even in a home.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDjIw89-OJM&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25AwA9m66E&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL[/ame]

 

Yes, and Muangsurin lost that one IMO, although it was him coming on strong at the end.

He ate kicks and punches to the head as natural as breathing. It's no surprise he suffered late in life, but what a fighter.

 

Here we go Flea.
Sorry about the slight delay, the wife is 4 months pregnant so not the most patient person in the world at the moment, I have to pick my moments. I’ll do this in two posts, the translation stuff and then the clips.

เวนิสบ.ข.สVenice Borkhorsor

วิกิพีเดียยังไม่มีบทความที่ตรงกับชื่อนี้Wikipedia does not have an article with this name.

• [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]เริ่มบทความ[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]เวนิส[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]บ[/FONT].[FONT=&quot]ข[/FONT].[FONT=&quot]ส[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=&quot] To create a page on Wikipedia for Venice Borkhorsor (Goes nowhere).[/FONT]
• [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]ค้นหา[/FONT] "[FONT=&quot]เวนิส[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]บ[/FONT].[FONT=&quot]ข[/FONT].[FONT=&quot]ส[/FONT]" [/FONT][FONT=&quot]ในบทความอื่นที่มีอยู่แล้ว[/FONT] Venice Borkhorsor [FONT=&quot]in another article that already exists.[/FONT] (A link to pages that have either Venice or Borkhorsor mentioned).
• [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]ดูหน้าอื่นในวิกิพีเดียซึ่งกล่าวถึงชื่อดังกล่าว[/FONT] Check in another source (Goes nowhere).[/FONT]

With the second tab you are taken to many many links to pages that may have him listed as well as pages that relate to Venice the place. Guys he fought, list of champs from various boxing organisations but it’s only really the 1st on this long list that is directly about him and it’s a typical Wikipedia bio like you’d get on Jake La Motta for example. Real name Phravit Ponchiengkwuang, born 6th May 2493 in Nakon Panom. etc etc. There’s quite a lot. We can translate it but it'll take some time.

At this point I should tell I must apologise as in the first post on Nakon Panom I misread it as Nakon Pathom. Nakon Panom is in the top corner of Issan a long bus or train ride away in the north east. So all those directions I gave you about the temple in Nakon Pathom are wrong. I thought he was from Nakon Pathom a province next to BKK, my mistake not as easy to find him in a small temple up there in Issan, but still possible with a bit of help form friends.

Interms of the nickname “sab”, I was right, Cheeky Boy would be “Dek Tulet” or “Dek Ohbaht” or “Dek Telung” depending on the context of cheeky.

Sab is roughly translated as the polite version of “Kohjai” meaning to understand or said with a different tone stinky or smelly a synonym for “mein”. I tried to think of what that could mean in Issan but the nearest we got was “Seb" which is Issan for delicious. But on the whole Issan and Thai are very close so I doubt Sab would mean cheeky.

 

I enjoyed these clips, but I warn you they are so ****ing sad. It’s a story I’m only far too familiar with in Thailand.

I’ll give you a brief run down on each clip. I’ll mention the stuff that isn’t the obvious boxing history otherwise it’ll take too long. To give you a vibe of Saensak at this point in his life my reading of the way he‘s talking he isn’t the full package (I mean that in the absolute best possibly way, but you know what I mean when a fighter has had a few too many) and he comes across as a broken forgotten man that isn’t bitter just very very sad about it all.

1st Clip starts in what looks like Pattaya with a famous Muay Thai fighter but I can’t tell who because the narration is in Chinese. When he talks though he says he does these mock fights for 140 baht a night plus tips, so around £3. (I remember helping Khunsek Sor Thaikul a famous boxer in his day do a mock fight in Nana for 500 baht only £10, so it’s pretty common place once they finish their careers). Even though I’m so familiar with this **** it still breaks my heart every time to hear these absolute ****in proud legends almost reduced to beggars. I’ll never get used to it.

Then we move on to your guy Saensak in the second part of the 1st and the rest of the second clip. Other than normal boxing history I think you know, he says some interesting stuff. He is asked about the pic of Muhammad Ali and he replies:

“I travelled the whole world every country! Even Muhammad Ali couldn’t beat me!”(And he means it!)

When asked about his eye he refutes the idea this was damage from the ring, he basically says that in his prime many Mafia people approached him to take a dive but he never did, so the Mafia guys went to a “Mor Pee” a witchdoctor and used black magic against him in revenge for not taking the dives. This is where he talks about his belief in the dangers of Black magic. If you notice near the start of the 2nd clip you see him lying infront of some monks and then a picture of a bunch of nails, well again he reckons the monks extracted the nails out of his body and they were the result of another black magic attempt against him. (This is very common with most Thais, the belief in ghosts and the use of black magic that’s why you see most people in Thailand wearing protective Buddhist amulets around their necks, some costing very very large amounts of money and many boxers with Sak Yan protective tattoos. My brother in law claims he has one that has stopped bullets hitting him?!?!)

The clip continues basically with Saensak telling the story of how before the eye problem when he was boxing he was on top of the world with money, fame, the house, the car the girl and then once he had the eye problem how his life went to hell and he lost everything including his wife. Everyone forgot about him, thrown on the scrapheap. He talks about how he now lives life day to day and how he has nothing really in his life and has nothing to show. (I wanna ****in cry). The clip basically ends with my man Samart singing the song at the end with clips of Samart and others including a nasty cut probably form an elbow in Lumpinee etc.

This getting a bit long so I’ll sum up the final two clips pretty quick. Interesting points Saensak makes are how he really feared fighting Americans due to their tough reputation (well he had nothing to worry about there!). The little girl in the video is one of two daughters. The clips are basically saying what a shame it was that a great Champion and Hero of Thailand was allowed to die forgotten and in poverty with no help form the government (well that’s the land of smiles for you). It talks of how after a TV interview to show his plight, it showed his house with leaks and almost dilapidated so people got together to donate money and he lives of the donations of around 7000 baht a month (£120). It seems he died from a ruptured intestine they claim was an old fight wound. The clip then goes on to talk about how the Southern fighter Porn Ging Phet was the first Thai world champion at Flyweight and he won his fight against an Argentine. They show his memorial statue etc.

Sad, sad and ****in sad again, but like I said in another post this is the story of 99.9% of Thai fighters, once they are done no one gives a ****. I’m hoping that since the emergence and rise over the last 10 years of MMA and K1 etc that these guys may get a better deal, but the truth is the conveyer belt will never stop and I fear it will always only be the few like Khosai, Samat, Somluck, Buakaw that will make it out of the Thai meat market with both their faculties and some dough to escape the poverty trap.

 

On a slightly lighter note.....

Samart as we know him........ (check the uppercuts!):good


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoxaeGVv3os&feature=youtube_gdata_player[/ame]




And Samart as you may not know him.....................:yikes


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1yZpAJA__A&feature=related[/ame]