ESB Official Voting Thread -- Post Rankings Here!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Lampley, Oct 6, 2007.

  1. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You're right....lower weight classes are harder and I simply overlooked it. I do not know the rules on altering your list before the deadline however. Hopefully others will not make the mistake that I made there. If I can correct it, I will.....
     
  2. Big Ears

    Big Ears Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It's a good thing too , most of your lists were solid but there are a few things which stand out as bad choices .
    *Wayne Elcock making the middleweight top 10
    *Sergei Dzinzurik being totally absent from the Light-Middleweight rankings(imo he's #1)
    *Jamie Moore being top 10 at Light-Middleweight , although this one isn't too bad as I think Moore is top 15 .
    *Raheem being ranked at #4 at Lightweight........far too high .

    Also small things like how high Tony Thompson is ranked , Ding being ahead of Huck and Gomez being ranked at Heavy are all things I disagree on but anyway it doesn't really matter as the list doesn't count anyway .

    I do like the way you have Sergio Martinez ranked at Light-Middle though , far too many people have him absent .
     
  3. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    Same here. I was unaware of that fight, and don't know what the rules are regarding making changes once you've posted ratings.

    If it is permissible, then, I would request to substitute Kiko Martinez for Dunne in my list

    I did a fair amount of research on this - but, damn, it's hard to keep up with all the variables! Thanks Smazz20!:good
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I found it much more difficult than I thought I would actually.

    Ridiculous though it sounds (because Lamps gave plenty of notice) I was caught on the hop a bit. Basically I haven't filled all the slots available on account of the fact that it would mean inserting guys when I wasn't sure about the men in question...

    Next time i'm going to open up a few threads about the fighters/divisions i'm not expert on, make it more of a community effort. I think this is preferable to yanking names out of magazines or whatever, which is the other option for filling these slots (in my case).

    As for right now, where is everyone?
     
  5. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I did a ton of research and wow. How many variables are there? I didn't realize how much research went into this. I am hoping I haven't missed much else.

    It's a good idea to perhaps ask questions of the forum on fighters and divisions we are unsure of.
     
  6. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    Perhaps, in the future, we could post our ratings in advance and if someone notices some anomaly, like the Dunne thing, then we can make adjustments BEFORE "official" submission.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think this would kind of hurt the "offical" thread, if you see what I mean...I do think that this job is a tough one and posting questions about specific fighters, or starting discussion on a specific division would be a big help.
     
  8. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well, technically, official submission ends tonight. Hopefully Lampley will give us an answer soon.

    This is kind of a glaring ommission, so I would think allowing the adjustment would bring more integrity to the process than not allowing it.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree.

    It's also harder for the guy going first than the guy going second (and so on), so a little breathing space would be welcomed to keep things balanced (and encourage people to post, which is looking like it may be a problem).

    I like that people are waiting for Lamps to rule though, it is his show.
     
  10. MrStayman

    MrStayman Active Member Full Member

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    :happy:happy:happy

    Thanks for all the time put into this.
     
  11. Axe

    Axe Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Pound For Pound

    Floyd Mayweather Jr
    Manny Pacquiao
    Juan Manuel Marquez
    Israel Vazquez
    Ricky Hatton
    Bernard Hopkins
    Rafael Marquez
    Joel Casamayor
    Joe Calzaghe
    Marco Antonio Barrera


    Heavyweights

    Wladimir Klitscho
    Ruslan Chagaev
    Samuel Peter
    Sultan Ibragimov
    Oleg Maskaev
    Nikolay Valuev
    Sergei Liakovich
    Tony Thompson
    Juan Carlos Gomez
    Vladimir Virchis

    Cruiserweights

    Champion: Jean Marc Mormeck

    O’neill Bell
    Enzo Maccarinelli
    David Haye
    Steve Cunningham
    Krzysztof Wlodarczyk
    Vadim Tokarev
    Tomasz Adamek
    Firat Arslan
    Darnell Wilson
    Marco Huck

    Light Heavyweight

    Bernard Hopkins
    Chad Dawson
    Clinton Woods
    Zsolt Erdei
    Glen Johnson
    Antonio Tarver
    Paul Briggs
    Stripe Drews
    Thomas Ulrich
    Adrian Diaconu

    Super Middleweight

    Champion: Joe Calzaghe

    Mikkel Kessler
    Jeff Lacy
    Anthony Mundine
    Marcus Beyer
    Carl Froch
    Librado Andrade
    Lucien Bute
    Edison Miranda
    Alan Green
    Alejandro Berrio

    Middleweight

    Champion: Kelly Pavlik

    Winky Wright
    Jermain Taylor
    Artur Abraham
    Felix Sturm
    Javier Castillejo
    Sebastian Sylvester
    Amin Asikainen
    John Duddy
    Kassim Ouma
    Mariano Carrera

    Light Middleweight

    Cory Spinks
    Roman Karmarzin
    Vernon Forrest
    Sergei Dzindziruk
    Joachim Alcine
    Oscar De La Hoya
    Ike Quartey
    Travis Simms
    Sechew Powell
    Joel Julio

    Welterweight

    Champion: Floyd Mayweather

    Miguel Cotto
    Paul Williams
    Shane Mosley
    Kermit Cintron
    Antonio Margarito
    Joshua Clottey
    Luis Collazo
    Zab Judah
    Andre Berto
    Oktay Urkal

    Light Welterweight

    Champion: Ricky Hatton

    Junior Witter
    Paul Malignaggi
    Ricardo Torres
    Vivian Harris
    Gavin Rees
    Souleymane M’Baye
    Lovemore Ndou
    Herman Ngoudjo
    Demtrius Hopkins
    Juan Urango

    Lightweight

    Juan Diaz
    Joel Casamayor
    Julio Diaz
    Michael Katsidis
    David Diaz
    Nate Cambell
    Zahir Raheem
    Almazbek Raiymkulov
    Anthony Peterson

    Super Featherweight

    Manny Pacquiao
    Juan Manuel Marquez
    Joan Guzman
    Edwin Valero
    Humberto Soto
    Marco Antonio Barrera
    Jorge Barrios
    Rocky Juarez
    Mzonke Fana
    Alex Arthur

    Featherweight

    Chris John
    Injin Chi
    Jorge Solis
    Martin Honorio
    Naoki Matsuda
    Roberto Guerrero
    Jorge Linares
    Hiroyuki Enoki
    Steven Luevano

    Super Bantamweight

    Champion: Israel Vasquez

    Rafael Marquez
    Daniel Ponce de Leon
    Celestino Cabalerro
    Steve Molitor
    Somsak Sithchatchawal
    Sergio Manuel Medina
    Kiko Martinez
    Mike Oliver
    Poonswat Kratingaenggym
    Ray Bautista

    Bantamweight

    Hozumi Hasegawa
    Silence Mabuza
    Gerry Penalosa
    Ricardo Cordoba
    Wladimir Sidorenko
    Jhonny Gonzalez
    Joseph Agbeko
    Simone Maludrottu
    Mauricio Martinez
    Luis Perez

    Superflyweight

    Cristian Mijares
    Alexander Munoz
    Nobuo Nashiro
    Martin Castillo
    Fernando Montiel

    Flyweights

    Nonito Donaire
    Pongsaklek Wonjongkam
    Vic Darchinyan

    Jr. Flyweight

    Champion: Ivan Calderon

    Hugo Cazaras
    Ulises Solis
    Edgar Sosa
    Omar Nino
    Giovanni Segura

    Strawweight

    Eagle Kyowa
    Florante Condes
    Yutaka Niida
    Muhammed Rachman
    Donnie Nietes
     
  12. Words

    Words Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wayne Elcock just beat Howard Eastman, which gives him plenty of credebility in my book. Howard Eastman was once a very good fighter, and a win over him usually shepherds someone into the top 10. But Wayne Elcock, I've seen him plenty of times before and he's never been that good. Probabkly making too much of the Eastman victory, Eastman seems totally shot now. On reflection I take your point there.

    I've barely heard of
    sergei dzizinurek, never seen him fight, but I looked at his record on boxrec, the only guy I'd heard of that he'd beat was Daniel Santos. Boxrec have him 6th but I really dont trust boxrec's rankings at all, they're insane sometimes, so I left him out to be on the safe side. I dont trust German fighters with impressive records who fight in Germany all the time against unknown opponents, I'm very cynical when it comes to them, but if you say this guy is the real deal I stand humbly corrected. You having him no.1 though? Over Vernon Forrest and Oscar De La Hoya?

    Jamie Moore is very close to top 10, I put him 10th because I like the guy's guts and exciting style, but he's probably in the 10-15 bracket like you say. 10 isn't exactly bad.

    Zahir Raheem gets a high ranking coz he beat an ATG in Erik Morales and I think he did well against Acelino Freitas only losing closely. He's not achieved a great deal but he has a lot of natural talent. 4 too high for you? fair enough difference of opinion. Time will tell.

    The heavyweights are just dire. once you get outside the top 5 or 6 there's not a lot of class in the division. Tony Thompson, in a sane world, shouldn't even be anywhere near the top 10, but he's big and consistant and ****, who else is there? Jamell McCline isn't any better than Tony Thompson, but he nearly beat Sam Peter (no.2) and he was out-doing Nicolay Valuev too. Between 5-and 20 in the heavyweights any man could beat any other, there's a lot of ambiguity. There's so many b-level fighters that its hard to make a clear judgement.

    Ding gets a higher ranking than Tokarev because even though Tokarev beat him, Ding is on a superb run of victories has improved as a fighter. Marco Huck, he's good, he beat Tokarev and he's got a few other decent names on his record, but the jury is still out him for me. there's not a lot between them all to be honest, cruiserweight is a very competetive division.

    Juan Carlos Gomez definitely deserves a top 10 ranking though. Firstly, coz of his performance against McCall, who is deserving of a top 10 place, and because of his pedigree as a cruiserweight champion. He has a lot of talent and class, if/when he gets his **** together he could do very well in the Heavyweight division.


    I'll get on this commitee eventually, as my boxing knowledge is vast and detailed to a degree that makes onlookers wonder if I'm a genius or borderline autistic. you shall see.

    Cheers for the feedback though, is it ok I mock/critisize the other lists in this thread? To spark debate like.
     
  13. Big Ears

    Big Ears Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well you've come back with some solid points there . I felt Eastman was a bit lucky to get the decision over Ashira and that he really is shot now , so from that I feel Elcock being top 10 is a bit high , Asikainen or Duddy would have been a better choice imo . Just checking now though and the Ring have him at #10 so maybe not quite as crazy as first appears .

    For me Dzinzurik is the real deal with possibly the best jab in boxing , and I would favour him over Forrest and De La Hoya . He does need to improve his opposition though , he was fighting better guys when he held the European title .

    I don't fully agree with the rest of what you've said but(mainly about Raheem) but you've given solid reasoning and as you said with the heavyweights there's so many b-level fighters than it's hard to be decisive on who really deserves top 10 .

    Yes we're allowed critisize , praise or whatever other lists so feel free .


    Now things will have to take a downward note(from my point of view) , Zackman how the hell did you miss the exposure of someone's chin when they have as high a profile as Dunne , granted he's not exactly well known in the States but you missed that [YT]sKAMDcMYhvw[/YT].........so depressing , anyway he can still hack it at European level and who knows maybe some day a skilled fighter with absolutely no power will become Super Bantamweight champ and Dunne will have a chance at winning a World title .
     
  14. Smazz20

    Smazz20 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Damn man, that was brutal. He was and still is one of my favs. That's as close to **** a man can get in the ring.
     
  15. Lampley

    Lampley Boxing Junkie banned

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    Hey Guys,

    Was out of town all day for work (hence the reason for the very early morning post). Yes, you may and please do edit your rankings. They don't become cemented until cutoff time at 8:00am EST.

    Also, this will be by far the most taxing voting period. From here, you'll simply be making adjustments to your foundation. Much, much easier.

    Where is everyone else?