Evander Holyfield - "small" heavyweight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Jul 22, 2010.


  1. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    When of someone being "blown up " I think of someone who does not carry the weight well. Holyfield was pretty functional.
     
  2. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Yeah. He isn't clumsily overstuffed after the HW build and doesn't have that stiff addled look that foreshadowed Marquez getting schooled when he made his first ill-prepared sojourn up to welter for Mayweather.

    Holyfield was never lacking in agility or fluidity after his ascent, hallmarks of someone whose bulk is excessive for their frame or attributable solely to steroid use.

    I completely reject the idea that he is a "natural" 190lbs. He made that mark early on, fine, but that doesn't make it his ideal base fighting weight. I think his longtime two-teens average is much closer to his natural fighting weight, even if he did happen to add significant muscle in the gym.
     
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    He might have been on the small side for a heayvweight of his era.
     
  4. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    I'm not sure in how many different ways I can illustrate that he wasn't!
     
  5. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Matter of opinion I suppose.
     
  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Schmopinion!!!! :twisted:

    Dye his skin white and give him a full head of hair in a shaggy mop-top and you have Povetkin.

    ...and he's only a mite smaller than Holmes. :banana
     
  7. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I guess it depends on what we define as a "modern" heavyweight and when exactly that time frame begins. Also, are we comparing his size to every heavyweight within that time frame or mostly the top or most relevant ones. over the last 20 years you've had guys like Bowe, Lewis, Wladmir, Vitali, Valuev, Fury, Foreman, Grant, Briggs, Golata, Wilder, etc.. Most of those men were anywhere from 6'4" to 7'0", and weighed anywhere from 235-300.. So by those standards, yes.. He's small for the period of the past 20 years.
     
  8. 2piece

    2piece Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'd say his natural weight is closer to 200 flat like he was when he first moved up to heavyweight, other than that I agree with what you say.
     
  9. Nighttrain

    Nighttrain 'BOUT IT 'BOUT IT Full Member

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    Prediction :
    Schmopinion will be the next word added to censored list!
     
  10. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Agree.

    I did a little research on current Boxrec TOP-20 HWs.

    Their average height is a shade under 6'4'', average weight is 238,5 lbs.

    So while Holyfield, Moorer, Ibragimov, Povetkin etc are not that small, but they are still smaller than average TOP-HWs today (6'4'', 238,5).

    13 HWs from TOP-20 are taller than Holyfield, and only one is notably shorter (Chagaev).

    18 are heavier and 2 are lighter.

    So conclusion is: Holyfield is not that small, but smaller than average current HW's
     
  11. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    All-time? No, he was actually pretty big compared to many of the past greats. He was bigger, as big, or almost as big as-

    Sullivan
    Corbett
    Fitzsimmons
    Jeffries
    Hart
    Burns
    Johnson
    Dempsey
    Tunney
    Schmeling
    Sharkey
    Baer
    Braddock
    Louis
    Charles
    Walcott
    Marciano
    Patterson
    Johansson
    Liston
    Ali
    Ellis
    Frazier
    Foreman (clearly a bigger man but not a huge difference)
    L. Spinks
    Norton
    Holmes
    M. Spinks
    Tyson... you get the point.

    During his era? He was definitely not huge.

    I've seen him listed at 6'2 1/2" with a 77 1/2" reach. His weight ranged from 205 - 221 Lbs. in his HW World Title fights. He was very similar in size and build to Ken Norton who was never considered a small Heavyweight... 6'3" with an 80" reach and 212 3/4 - 220 Lbs. in his HW World Title fights. Norton was 205 - 217 1/2 Lbs. in his 3 fights vs. Ali.

    Holyfield fought big men like-

    Douglas- 6'4" and 246

    Foreman- 6'4" and 257

    Holmes- 6'3 1/2" and 233

    Bowe- 6'5" 235, 246, and 241

    Stewart- 6'3" and 228 (he was only 213 in their first fight)

    Lewis- 6'5" with an 84" reach, 245 and 242

    Rahman- 6'2 1/2" with an 82" reach and 224 (he was usually much heavier, he was 238 when he beat Lewis and 245 when he beat Sanders)

    Savarese- 6'5" and 242

    Valuev- 7' with an 85" reach and 310 3/4
     
  12. FrankinDallas

    FrankinDallas FRANKINAUSTIN

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    Height vs weight means nothing. It's a man's frame that determines how "big" he is. Mark Breland was, at 6'3", taller than Holy and weighed 147 pounds! Evander packed a lot of muscle on his frame but would have been a fat pig at 250 pounds.

    I'd say he was average in his day but small in 2015.
     
  13. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Height and reach can also be deceiving, mainly I think you have to take in a boxer's build and other measurements.
    David Tua was only 5'9 and a 70 inch reach, but had legs like tree trunks. short yes, small no.
     
  14. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Holyfield's build (as in the bone structure itself, muscle caked on top by lifting weights notwithstanding) was huge. For a cruiser, freakish. He wasn't a big heavyweight but he wasn't small by any 20th-century or even current standards.
     
  15. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think you're right. Had Holy had big muscular legs, he'd have been around 235 lbs.