Ezzard Charles is Overrated.

The first win over Moore was a lopsided UD, close to a shutout, according to Boxrec. Where did you get MD from? Then, after two fights with one of the greatest boxing minds of all time, he punctuated the series with a KO. Which you failed to mention.

Lesnevich had ended the previous year as the nr. 1 contender at LHW, and at 178 lbs for that fight Charles was just as much a LHW as Burley was a WW when he faced Charles. So it was basically a fight between two world class LHWs with no weight stipulation.

So you're wrong on some facts and twist others to suit your argument (looking at Lesnevich as a HW when Charles for all intent and purposes was a LHW when facing him) -- whether that's attacking him or not it's not a really good way to make your case.

 

You're right the 1st Moore fight was U Dec.I said Charles blitzed Moore once.
Where Lesnevich ended the previous year at Lhvy is irrelevant he was not ranked at Heavy.Charles weighing around LHVy whilst being heavyweight champion does not exclude the fact that Maxim Barone,Lesnevich were really lhvys
Lesnevich was done, he had lost 2 of his last 3 fights 1 to the moderate Mills. I twist nothing and the 1st Moore result was an honest mistake on my part.
I'm not making a case ,as I said at the start I'm just playing Devils Advocate.I disagree with the OP. but am trying to bring some other shades to this apart from just black and white.

 

I was 100% certain I would find a comment from you, George

 

So when Burley fights a bit over the WW limit he's not a MW, but when Charles fights a bit over the LHW limit he's a HW? Yeah, you're really not agenda driven.

Lesnevich was not ranked a HW because he was seen as a LHW and ranked there. But he was unbeaten at HW since 1946 and had two wins over Mauriello in 1947. And, as I said, Lesnevich was nr. 1 contender at LHW at the end of 1948 and since then only lost a decision to Maxim in a title fight. So he was still probably a world class LHW, and when Charles and him faced off they were essentially two LHWs fighting without a weight limit.

 

Burley was giving Charles 9lbs and 6 and a half pounds,you believe that's the same differential as Charles v Lesnevich where both were within 4 lbs of each other?
Or perhaps you think a fighter who scales 151lbs is a middleweight?
Lesnevich was done he had fought Mauriello 2 years earlier, now who is twisting things to suit his agenda?

Mills beat Lesnevich up. Gus retired after the Charles fight
1948-07-26 174¾ Freddie Mills 170½ 75 16 6
White City Stadium, White City
L
PTS 15/15
event bout wiki scores
referee: Teddy Waltham
World Light Heavyweight Title
"Blood streamed from cuts over both of Lesnevich's eyes from the 1st round and he was twice down for counts of nine, one of which he took resting on one knee.

 

Of course Charles defeated an older, inactive Louis but it was a historic win where he rose to the occasion and won. Keep in mind this was still over his best weight and division ... he came back from losses to Bivins and Marshall, both great fighters and established his superiority over both multiple times after the loss. Coming back from losses is a sign of greatness, especially over great fighters ..Against Johnson it was a very close fight and he was past his prime ... against Overlin he was very young while Overlin, a terrific fighter himself had over a hundred fights at the time, a huge advantage in experience .. Walcott was a great heavyweight and a natural heavyweight .. to fight on that level was a tremendous achievement for an ex-middleweight .. all in perspective .

 

Have I anywhere said Charles is not a great fighter? Have I anywhere said he is not a P4P great? Do you think Louis was, at 218lbs near his natural weight?

During his lifetime I don't think anyone thought Walcott a great heavyweight

 

I think a fighter scaling 151 lbs is a WW that doesn't have to make 147, just as I think a fighter scaling 178 is LHW that doesn't have to make 175. THAT'S MY POINT.

So one last time:

• Lesnevich was seen, and ranked, as a LHW that fought a bit above the limit when he didn't have to scale 175.
• He was ranked nr. 1 contender at the end beginning of the year and had since lost a decision to Maxim in a title fight. I don't have the monthly ranking when he faced Charles but it seems unlikely that he had dropped out of the ranking just because of that loss to Maxim
• Him and Charles were LHWs that didn't have to scale 175 when they met, just as Burley was a WW that didn't have to scale 147 when he met Charles.

You can either save some face and admit you got it wrong or you can continue with the dishonest line of reasoning you have pursued so far, but I've repeated myself enough times about this in either case.

 

I was wondering when the personal attacks would begin
LESNEVICH WAS FINISHED WHEN HE FOUGHT CHARLES .That is inarguable.
Watch his 2nd fight with Mills.
Now I'm out, I don't need to engage in an insult trade,with a man who cannot control his emotions.

 

I am simply responding to your post and points made.

Louis was ten pounds or so over his post WW2 weight but he was for the time a decent sized career heavyweight .

Walcott, many have since.

 

I appreciate the way you have responded, and your points are well taken,.

 

Thank you .. back at you.

 

Lesnevich win was very satisfying for Charles since Gus had ducked Charles for many years and refused to give him title shot for light heavyweight crown

 

Totally agree.I didn't think much of Lesnevich,too many names missing from his resume.I think Bivins and Marshall would have taken him.

 

Some more stuff I saved over the years from Ezzard Charles personal friend

re: ezzard and lloyd marshal. ezz was in the army that year...he also lost to jimmy bivins in the same year. ("I was up and down like a yoyo in that one," he said.) i can't explain why he even had those fights....he was in service and there was no way he could properly train. now those two guys were great fighters and may have won anyway, but i doubt it because he beat them later. he was allowed by the army to fight..which again was strange. while in the army he also fought in inter-allied matches and won them all. there was a rumor that he had boxed billy conn and fought circles around him, but ezzard said it wasn't true..that he had never been in the ring with conn.

against holman williams? i guess it could have gone either way....at 171 i'd pick ezzard against just about anyone near his size...but at 160 i don't think ezz had reached his peak...and was inexperienced, so hollman might have outsmarted him