There are arguments for and against Vitali's greatness but the arguments against are most often overlooked, at least on these forums in my experience.
dude Fury ducked 96.4% in post Klitchko era . Only “beaten” 40 year old shot wlad while being on steroids , ducked the rematch , went life and death with wallin ,was floored 7 times , his best win is another legendary duck wilder , then he shamefully ducked Usyk . Oh and Mr. Duck won the biggest duck in history of boxing award on ESB.
So any boxer who chooses to retire was in fact retired by his final opponent? The Vitali fight was close and whilst it sits as a TKO win to Lewis it was effectively stopped on cuts with Vitali slightly ahead. But that is of itself of no consequence. To state categorically that Vitali "retired" Lewis is about the most outrageous thing I have ever read. Lewis took bigger beatings than what Vitali gave him. It was a close fight between two great fighters. There was nothing special about it other than that. It is literally impossible to know why Lewis retired after that fight. Perhaps he no longer had the hunger. Perhaps something happened in his personal life that put boxing into perspective. Perhaps he looked at his bank balance along with his good health and thought "why risk it." Perhaps it was all of those things. Perhaps it was none of them. We will likely never know.
Fury was around for the majority of the Klitschko era, Vitali was not (Fury 7 years continuously, Vitali 4.5 years sporadically). Chisora is arguably Fury's 7th best opponent beaten currently (Wlad, Wilder x2, Wallin, Cunningham, Whyte, Chisora) but Vitali's best! Vitali was busted for steroids, quit against southpaw Byrd and couldn't overcome adversity when he got cut. These are facts, not opinions. Wlad wouldn't have fought Fury (who his late trainer said was the biggest threat to him years prior) if he was anywhere close to being "shot", while Fury was far less experienced, fighting in Wlad's backyard, as a 4/1 underdog and won with relative ease. Vitali found a way to lose without being floored whenever he fought someone above Chisora-level.
"is about the most outrageous thing I have ever heard" You haven't heard anything remotely outrageous then. "So any boxer who chooses to retire was in fact retired by his final opponent?" No. Lewis was retired by Vitali because his plan for 3-4 more fights became 0 after the Vitali fight, on the grounds that the fight was difficult, controversial and Lewis didn't want to risk a rematch. He said it himself in 2008: "why put my legacy at risk rematching Klitschko?"
Even if Lewis said that (I have never seen that quoted) it doesn't mean that he couldn't have taken other fights. Vitali never retired him at all. That's outrightly nonsense.
I wasn't competing with the Wilder dossier, which is very funny but unserious. The realistic criticisms are much more mundane: 1. Almost exclusively fought at home with A-side advantage 2. Overwhelmingly fought lower level opposition for the first 4 years and 25 pro fights and didn’t consistently fight high level opposition for 5 years and 14 fights after that 3. Never beat Fury and lost to him twice
"it doesn't mean that he couldn't have taken other fights." He physically could have but the reputational damage would have been significant. He'd have been more vehemently accused of ducking Vitali if he'd continued with his career and fought Jones, Tyson 2 or whoever. Vitali put Lewis in a difficult position and retired him.
Interesting to see a derogatory thread about Vitali who fought 47 times in his career and was a great champion. One of the claims is about how inactive he was. I wonder if any of the current top 10 make it to 47 fights? Considering some of them are now part time boxers and spend more time on the sun lounger than in the ring, it’s going to be interesting times. We have one ex champion who has only fought 28 times at 33 years old and now only fights once per year. We have another who at 34 has 34 fights and is also now on the 1 fight per year party.
We may just have to agree to disagree mate as this is going around in circles. I just cannot understand the absolutist thinking here. Is it your opinion that Jimmy Young retired George Foreman?
Not sure it's a derogatory thread. Vitali was fantastic. I just stop short of making claims about him that can be contested.
"Interesting to see a derogatory thread about Vitali" My first two posts present both sides of the argument, the first being the side which I believe gets less of a hearing. It's factual, not a polemic. "One of the claims is about how inactive he was." Wlad was active for 96% of the Klitschko era, Vitali 39%. And Vitali fought the lesser opposition for the most part, for whatever reason. "I wonder if any of the current top 10 make it to 47 fights?" Wilder.
"Is it your opinion that Jimmy Young retired George Foreman?" The specifics are different but yes. Foreman would have continued if he'd beaten the much smaller, lighter punching, B-side Young. The fight clearly shook his confidence and destroyed his will to continue.
Wilder is the only one who will actually make it to 47 fights. Which kind of blows your inactive attack out the water. Especially as Vitali’s inactivity wasn’t caused by being a money grabbing oaf, but was actually caused by injuries. You can go back and delete the inactive claim now before someone notices. Yes he fought lesser opposition but he did step in at times and deal with business. For example, when he went toe to toe with Corrie Sanders and smashed him into next week.