Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Eel87, Apr 28, 2021.
Who do you like in this one at 154?
Vargas was one of my favorites when I was a kid.
They're in the same general bracket as fighters. I'll take Cotto in a head-to-head, though I don't expect many to side with me.
Cotto folds under pressure.
Vargas was good, but Cotto was more skilled. It's not Cotto's best weight, but he's still good enough to get the job done, in my view.
Vargas beats Cotto up for a UD or late stoppage. He is bigger, stronger, and just as skilled.
I can’t see Cotto beating a pre-Tito Vargas. Not at all.
Too many times I see folks only remembering the shot version of Vargas that lost badly to Mosley and Mayorga and not the fierce young champion that had a 100-5 amauter record and solid wins over Quartey and Winky Wright. I know the win over Winky is somewhat disputed but what is not disputed is a young Vargas's physical strength and speed when he was in his short prime. If we are talking the best versions of both, I like a young Vargas at 154 over the smaller more skilled Cotto.
With that said, I do think Cotto had a much better career and is without question the more complete fighter.
Cotto was at his most disciplined when he was training with the Cubans at 154.
Vargas would be almost guaranteed to fight stupidly against a Puerto Rican.
I think Cotto would do better than Quartey and get a decision.
This bout is interesting to me. More than usual. When processing the hows and when of this match up I believe I have to give it to Cotto.
They are both fairly equal in regards to skill set, so I think what gives Cotto a better chance of winning this contest would be cause of his conditioning and endurance. Vargas could make weight yes, but remember this is a guy that would ballon to damn near close to 200 lbs when he wasn't fighting, and not to mention the suspect chin, but damn he has heart to get back up again, not always successfully every time, but still it is admirable. I'm not trying to take anything away from this former Olympian, but I think this will be a fire fight that leans to Cotto.
If I see this as the fight between Vargas and Tito, De la Hoya, and Mayorga then I think Vargas would lose against Cotto.
Cotto fought a lot of elite fighters in his career, so it could be debated that his resume is better, and with people like Pacquiao, Mayweather, Sergio Martinez, Canelo Alverez, Mosley, Judah, Chop Chop Corley, and Margarito all being given some of their toughest challenges. Yes, Cotto was stopped twice, but I believe that he could out due Vargas based on the methods of how Cotto was stopped. Margarito cheated basically threw bricks at Cotto for 4 rounds and Cotto's body seemed to just stop, which when scrummed to so much punishment, it is completely acceptable. Pacquiao was basically death by a thousand cuts, but Cotto did give a good effort throughout against someone who he had to out-time and not out-speed. So with those factors and comparing them to Vargas, I honestly don't see Vargas beating Cotto.
Vargas isn't as fast as Pacquaio and his style does dictate that he could out speed Cotto, and yes Vargas is strong and has a great left hook, but every time you see Vargas face what would end up being HOF quality opponents, he couldn't KO them or would lose via decision or KO. Winky Wright was as razor thin as I remember (Honestly I might rewatch this fight for a remembrance) and Tito, De la Hoya, Mosley, were outboxing performances and spectacular KOs.
Who knows though, this may be a perfect "Styles make fights" type of bout, and who knows Vargas may randomly clip Cotto and knock him out. I doubt it, but he may. And I think that his only shot of winning tbh is hope for to punish Cotto early and finish by the mid rounds.
Anyhoot, Cotto by Late TKO after multiple late round knockdowns after Vargas tires from being an early aggressor. Round 10 or 11. Or a UD if Vargas gets up like always has.
If Vargas wins it would be round 5-6.
Chances (oooh I'm going to pretend to math percentages for ****s and gigs):
Cotto Victory 70%
Cotto KO: 60%
Cotto Decision: 10%
Vargas Victory 25%
Vargas KO: 15%
Vargas Decision: 10%
Does anyone think the best 154-pound Cotto fights nip-and-tuck with Wright or is real competitive with Trinidad there? I don't. Cotto may have been better rounded overall, but his lack of physicality at that weight doesn't make up for the minimal skill difference between the two. Cotto was out-muscled by Trout, for fvck's sake. Vargas gets him late.
Vargas gets him outta there. Cotto not durable enough.
You say this like Mosely didn't beat Vargas twice by tko in 06 and lose to Cotto in 07. I know, Vargas must have been shot at age 28.
He wasn't shot but he clearly wasn't prime. Much of the talk before the first Vargas-Mosley bout was centered around that fact, with Steward noting how most people were picking Mosley because they felt Vargas wasn't the same guy after Trinidad. A lot of folks would agree with that assessment. Vargas also had back issues in 2003 and seemed like a stiffer fighter afterward because of it. I just don't see how that Vargas plays too big a role in the overall assessment.
I think Cotto gets destroyed by those late 90's / early 2000's Welters: DeLaHoya, Trinidad, Quartey and Vargas at SuperWelter.
Tremendous fight where I see Fernando's power being too much for Miguel to handle.
Yeah it’s madness to think Vargas was still near peak vs. Mosley (who was also washed up by then but less so). He (Vargas) looked very average in the Flores and Rivera fights post-Trinidad, and even against De La Hoya it’s clear he’d lost something despite being so young. Remember, he was hurt early vs. Tito and took a real hammering. He was never the same after that, and then after Oscar he also dropped a level. Certainly not the guy who beat Winky, Quartey for example.