Fight of the Fortnight #5: Cuban Controversy

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by George Crowcroft, Feb 10, 2020 at 12:35 AM.


  1. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Shouldn't be a hard theme to pin down.
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    Standard Reminder
    Lots to pick from here, @IntentionalButt @CST80 here you go. I recommend Gavilan vs Graham for you, IB. I know it's black and white but c'mon it's nothing you haven't seen before.

    Cubans are traditionally well schooled and insanely talented, mostly because the amount that get to the top are so watered down by the situations they're in. I guess I tried on the podcast:rolleyes:
     
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  2. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    Since I scored it literally the other day... Repost.

    Canelo Alvarez vs Erislandy Lara

    Canelo - Lara

    R1: 9 - 10
    Lara pot shotting; Canelo inactive.
    R2: 10 - 9
    Lara throwing a lot of glancing and deflected shots. Body work starting.
    R3: 9 - 10
    Lara winning on literally one left.
    R4: 10 - 9
    Canelo working the body.
    R5: 10 - 10
    Lara moving but not working enough off it.
    R6: 10 - 9
    Lara literally running at points. Canelo with more body work.
    R7: 9 - 10
    Lara sharp this round. Cut by an uppercut.
    R8: 10 - 9
    Lara not working; Canelo with some lovely rights to the body.
    R9: 10 - 9
    Close, but Lara is not consistent enough.
    R10: 9 - 10
    Lara picking them down the middle.
    R11: 9 - 10
    Lara negating Canelo.
    R12: 10 - 9
    Canelo bringing the action here.

    TOTAL: 115 - 114 CANELO

    Notes:
    • Close fight.
    • Neither fan narrative regarding this fight is really true. Lara wasn't as negative as made out, and Canelo wasn't totally schooled like detractors would state. Lara had a lot of glancing work, and was pounded to the body despite landing.
    • Not really sad Lara didn't get it. The opportunity was there for him to take, but he was a bit too negative to seize the victory.
     
  3. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I remember back in the day when you were younger and used to pick exciting fights to read about.
     
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  4. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I was falling asleep before I even finished reading the first threa.....ZzzzzzzzzzzzZzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
     
  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

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    It also happens to be the only fight listed that I haven't watched & scored on here before. :thumbsup:

    I'll have at it tomorrow (or the next day...or, quite possibly, Thursday, as my next 48 hours are fairly hectically blocked out...)
     
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  6. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Active Member Full Member

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    The wave of Cuban boxers pre-Castro were exciting as hell. Ultiminio, Napoles, Paret, Gavilan, Rodriguez, Legra, Stable etc; all crowd pleasers. Once they left and the game became only amateur I don’t think there’s been a country that’s consistently churned out more boring fighters. I’d rather pour acid in my eyes than watch Lara, Rigo. Casamayor was the only one who was sort of fun.
     
  7. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict Full Member

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    1 Andy Ganigan vs. Rudolfo SUPER GATO Gonzales
    2 Robin Blake vs. Tony Baltazar
    3 Roberto Elizondo vs. Cornelious Boza-Edwards
    4 Michael Spinks vs. Eddie Davis ( thought Ed won easily)
    5 Randal " Tex" Cobb vs. Ken Norton
    6 Chong Pal Park vs. In Chul Baek
     
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  8. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

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    Not to nitpick but a better choice of El Cepillo fight to fit the theme of "Cuban controversy" would the José Armando Santa Cruz fight. It's sort of fallen by the wayside but in the moment it was HUGELY scrutinized, and remained frequently cited on controversial decision lists for a few years afterward.

    The fight with JLC was controversial, no doubt, but I feel like the fight w/ JASC was infinitely more so.
     
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  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

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    What cretin uploaded this? :mad: Spoilers right in the damn video description.




    :D
     
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  10. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Kid Gavilan SD15 Billy Graham
    Official Scores - 10-7, 10-11, 9-6
    1951-08-29, National Boxing Association Welterweight fight.

    Third fight between these two, supposed to be incredibly difficult to score and knowing the class of both men as well as the style I'm looking forward to seeing Kid's flurries and combos as well as Billy's elite boxing skills. Never seen this one either, it was the one I was looking forward to scoring the most of the 6 FOTFs.

    Rd. Kid : Bill
    1. 10 : 9
    2. 10 : 9
    3. 10 : 9
    4. 9 : 10
    5. 10 : 9 (49-46)
    6. 10 : 9
    7. 9 : 10
    8. 10 : 9
    9. 9 : 10
    10. 9 : 10 (96-94)
    11. 10 : 9
    12. 9 : 10
    13. 9 : 10
    14. 9 : 10
    15. 10 : 10 (143-143)

    Round by Round
    Obviously I had it a draw so I don't agree with the decision but rounds 2, 4, 7, 9, 10, 11, 14 & 15 were arguable either way imo so a Gavilan wasn't out of the question and as champ more likely anyway, in all honesty. The momentum definitely shifted from clearly Gavalin's, to very subjective, to clearly Graham's.

    Unbelievable fight, so much to take in on a technical level early and a the action really picked up around the 8th, it became seriously hard to score from there. These 2 are seriously good, Graham being one of the more underrated fighters of all time, especially at WW. These 2 put on a technical work of art here. Maybe not the action of a Gatti/Ward, Chacon/Limon type but the class these 2 were together is something to behold.

    Gavilan was truly awesome. I loved his snappy counters and crazy combos. The feints he employed whilst closing the gap where on a level of their own and his head-movement is awesome too. The swarming/stalking hybrid style is sooooo fun to watch. It's little wonder why everyone likes him! Graham man he showed a solid set of fundamentals here, a real air tight defence and excellent footwork. That 1-2 was crazy sharp. He did look a little bit lost when eating counter jab after counter jab in the early goings though, but his ring IQ is good, no doubt. Both of these 2 were rapid with certified iron mandibles.

    These 2 would mop the floor at 147 today. :deal:

    @IntentionalButt
     
  11. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Saul Alverez SD12 Erislandy Lara

    Rd. Saul : Lara
    1. 9 : 10
    2. 9 : 10
    3. 9 : 10
    4. 10 : 9 (37-39)
    5. 9 : 10
    6. 10 : 9
    7. 10 : 9
    8. 10 : 9 (76-76)
    9. 10 : 9
    10. 9 : 10
    11. 9 : 10
    12. 9 : 10 (115-113)

    Boring ass fight, although that was quite clearly Lara's fault. Definitely not a clear win for either. Canelo gets too much flack for this one, but that 119 card was bull****.
     
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  12. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Active Member Full Member

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    There’s really not a close fight to score in that one. Everyone saw Santa Cruz as a runaway winner. Sort of like Pacquaio-Bradley I there’s no sense scoring it as nobody can make a case it was close enough to go the other way.
     
  13. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Tyler went away. Tyler's gone. Staff Member

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    True (big Cepillo fan myself, and scored the JLC fight his way, but he got a huge gift over JASC). Guess it depends whether you interpret controversial as "debatable" or more strictly defined by decisions that seem to contravene widespread perceptions. I think either is technically correct, but they are not the same. Eh, semantics. :D
     
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  14. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    You know, our very own @burt bienstock watched Graham live quite a lot as a younger man. Said he was one of the best boxers ever, alongside Ike Williams. Amazing stories; I wonder how Burt is doing now.
     
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  15. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He posts now as Eye of Timeous
     


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