- Youth world amateur champion - Seemingly got the better of 32 year old Haye and 27 year old Wilder in sparring at 21 - Was responsible for 3 of the 5 KO/TKO losses of prominent Cubans Larduet, Toirac and L. Pero in their amateur + WSB careers spanning 394 bouts, plus 36 pro fights as of 2026, with Hrgovic only fighting them 3 times - Olympic bronze medallist, blatantly robbed in the semi-final against Yoka, took 13+ months off - Avoided for the first 5 years of his pro career, which was spent fighting journeymen; notably swerved for an IBF final eliminator by the likes of Kabayel, Hunter, Bakole, Ortiz, Ruiz and Parker (who Hrgovic beat in the amateurs) - Beat 24-0-1, heavily underrated 7/1 underdog Zhang in a 12 round war, having never been past 8 rounds previously; Zhang was virtually if not the only contender willing to step up to fight Hrgovic - Lost to 2/1 underdog future 2x HW titlist Dubois in a controversial war marred by a substantial number of Dubois headbutts and a cut stoppage, with Hrgovic ahead on points after 7 rounds - Beat 14-0, historically hyped, 2024 prospect of the year, 1/7 favourite Itauma in a war, via come from behind 9th round stoppage to become IBF HW champion, with Usyk (who was turning 39) having ruled out a fight with Itauma, and Kabayel publicly kicking the can down the road on an Itauma matchup, despite it being lucrative and Itauma likely being more beatable at 21 than he probably would be later Southpaws are statistically vastly more dangerous than orthodox opponents, with Zhang and Itauma being more dangerous than most southpaw titlists previously. And Moorer beat Holyfield, Byrd beat Vitali, Sanders beat Wlad, Usyk beat Joshua x2, Dubois x2 and Fury x2. In a H2H sense, Hrgovic ranks at the 5th best European HW of all time, behind only Usyk, Fury and the Klitschkos. His two best wins are more formidable than any of Povetkin's wins, Hrgovic only has one loss, he was very heavily avoided and he's won a legitimate version of the heavyweight title.
I don't know if I agree 5th best European heavyweight sentiment or not, (I think not) but I do think it is absurd that BoxRec has him ranked as the number 37 all-time on the European list. He is behind such fighters as Kubrat Pulev, Lawrence Okolie and Gunnar Barland. The latter who lost more than a third of his 87 fights and went 2-13 against people I've heard of.
All head to head is speculation and opinion. Sure, I get that he is considered by you to be better head to head than Schmeling or Johansson, because he is bigger. But he doesn't "rank" fifth, he is in your opinion fifth. Also, we don't know how high up Moses is going to climb, so right now, the win is nowhere near what you think it is. As someone who called out Moses as manifestly having something wrong with him and not being what they sold, I am not convinced he is still the next champ, or anything. Additionally, does British count as European? Some call me stupid for saying that it is, others call me stupid for saying that it isn't. IF British is European, he has a lot of ground to cover before he gets consideration for top five. I notice there are no black European fighters on your short list...do you mean the fifth best white heavyweight? That gets us into the question of what is "white?" Is Andy Ruiz, or Johnny Ruiz White, because though Hispanic, they are obviously mostly Spanish in ancestry? Is Kabeyal white, being descended from Kurds, who are primarily Indo-European? Also. if blacks can't be European, then is Corrie Sanders not African? Then he must be European, right? Would that make all white American fighters "European?" Not being cheeky here, I just legitimately don't know what you are saying. What exactly is he supposedly fifth, at? Since you have included white fighters from the continent and Britain, what about Chagaev? Sultan? Povetkin (don't agree Hrgovics wins are better)? Pulev? Maskaev? I still think Schmeling and Johansson have an argument.
"Not being cheeky here, I just legitimately don't know what you are saying." I think you do understand what I'm saying and the only reason people get confused (or pretend to be) is because they have internalised false notions rooted in hostile and politically-motivated deconstructionism. "Also, we don't know how high up Moses is going to climb" The win could age well or not but I rate it highly regardless. Perhaps Itauma will be ruined by the loss, it's still a big win against a dangerous opponent. "Additionally, does British count as European?" Fury is in my top 5, for what that is worth. "Sure, I get that he is considered by you to be better head to head than Schmeling or Johansson, because he is bigger." Gerhard Zech was also bigger. It's not just the fact that Hrgovic is a SHW and they are effectively small cruisers, but Hrgovic being much more skilled and athletic than the giants in those days, with experience against modern styles and body types that did not exist in those days. I rate Hrgovic above Marciano, Coetzee and Sanders H2H, so it's a moot point for me. "Povetkin" I rate him 6th, with Whyte his best opponent beaten. I don't rate Whyte as highly as undefeated Zhang or Itauma, and Povetkin had more losses and no title. You can disagree on depth of names fought/beaten or another criteria, that is fine.
If the 10 best European HW's of all time had a H2H round robin, would you honestly be surprised if Hrgovic placed 5th? I don't think anyone would be, really.
Well, no. Of the few that care about this thread, a number agree with me, Well, no, you have not established good parameters. Note that I have had a few "likes," and Delboy is also wondering why Dubois is not on the list. I'm wondering about Lennox Lewis, myself.
Who has ever ranked European ATG HW boxers in a H2H sense? With this statement, you just ruined a topic that could have been good. Also, there’s the Canadian/Jamaican/British Lewis
Everyone understands what you are saying But in sporting terms, these fighters if bring ranked in such a way should be ranked in sections as to what countries and continents they officially represent Not this bloodline crap thst doesn't belong in a sporting forum
I'm not concerned with what a piece of paper says, I'm not going to play along with this decontructivist garbage. Derek Chisora has said "I am African", along with more serious/hostile ethnocentric statements. Which continent does he really represent? Same thing for AJ. Bloodlines matter a lot to them, even if they don't to you.
I've not said it matters to me and I haven't said it does My point is such conversation leads to inevitable arguments which are not sporting related You just like being that guy