Finally saw Marquez/Pacquiao II

That's a silly argument, you could easily say that JMM had the Power, youth and size disadvantage and still managed to earn the victory in the eyes of many(winning on most polls)!

 

Youth disadvantage only in biological years. But matter of fact, Pac had way more wear and tear due to his style and his level of opposition whereas JMM is mostly content in simply outboxing his mediocre level of opposition.

 

Exactly why I said that was a silly argument. That only leads to pointless back-and-forth bickering!

 

Not at all, his lack of power is down to him as a fighter overall and will be carried unto him no matter who he fights. Pac's style disadvantage is simply down to who is the opponent. For example, he destroyed MAB and MAB had a close fight with JMM, thats cos he had a style advantage over MAB. And his age didnt show and JMM started at FW, Pac at Fly...go figure who has the weight advantage...

Duran & Hearns are a classic example of 2 great fighters, but because Hearns had the style advantage, he demolished Duran. Had Duran scored a draw with Hearns, it will be clear that he is the better fighter.

Styles makes fights and Pac overcame the style.

 

Great, another *******:hi:

 

Its funny how you guys always say Pac was at a disadvantage just because JMM style is hell for him.
Did you seem to forget all the disadvantages JMM had to overcome.
Age
Speed
Strength
Judges and the whole world knowing if Pac won more money lied ahead. Great strategy Roach...

JMM had to overcome all of that. Lets face it Pac is a freak of nature his speed and strength are unreal for that weight class. JMM just used his technique and brain to decipher Pac and he succeded.

Even the pinoys know JMM won that fight. Its funny how before that fight they had polls and threads saying that since JMM and PAC make such a good fight that no matter what the outcome was they should fight over and over.
Not the case after this fight as they saw Pac picked apart at times and clearly outboxed.
Actually the polls and threads at Pacland after the fight seem to have forgotten JMM. WEIRD..... they made such a good fight.

 

Speed & strength are qualities of a fighter along with skill. You cant say someone is a better fighter because they managed a draw despite having strength and speed disadvantage, you could definetely say their the better technical fighter but not the better fighter. Styles however is down to the opponent and themselves as a fighter.

Styles makes fights. A fighter who is a B could beat a fighter who is probably rated A by most if he has the style advantage. Frazer, Foreman, Ali were all probably about the same level as a fighter, yet Foreman destroyed Joe. Had Joe beat George it would have been a miracle and a testament to his greatness, he would have overcame a huge style disadvantage.

 

With all due respect, "style disadvantage" is a bull**** excuse.

A fighter's style is part of his overall package. When two fighters get in the ring they bring their best qualities as well as some baggage(boxing weaknesses). You have two fighters hopefully fighting to their best abilities and using their own "god given talents", whatever they may be!

You can't discredit a win simply because one fighter had a "style disadvantage", that goes with the territory, who ever wins that fight was the better man that night, period!

 

Is george foreman necesarily a better fighter than Frazier? If so why did Ali beat George, George destroyed Frazier and Frazier beat Ali?

Of course whoever wins that fight is the better man that night. It doesnt necesarily mean that they are the better fighter of the 2 though. Junior Jones was no better than MAB yet MAB lost to him twice, Jones has the style advantage and would beat MAB but no doubt MAB is the overall better fighter.

 

I had 115-112 for Marquez.

 

Jones beat MAB mainly because Barrera was still incomplete and not yet prime while JOnes was pretty close to his prime. Not to mention that MAB was winning the first fight till he got caught and the second one was close, IMO Jones's experience was the difference here! But I agree with you MAB became the better overall fighter.

In the case of JMM/PAC, both fighters were close to prime, with PAC probably at his peak and JMM slightly past it. Which leads me to believe that JMM is the better overall fighter and would probably have beaten Pac "9 out of 10 times" at any point in their careers!

 

Yet the twice JMM tried, he failed...

 

:roll:

not really. Otherwise we wouldnt be debating this. Right?

 

Yes JMM failed to impress the judges, Pac will always have that over JMM:good

 

He kissed the canvas 4 times and twice the judges gave it to Pac (1st with judge being overruled despite admitted mistake). So how does that equate to jMM beating pac 9/10....