Finally saw Ward-Kovalev. No robbery!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by wylan911, Nov 30, 2016.


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  1. Mod-Mania

    Mod-Mania Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You gave round 10 to Ward?? wow you need a new guide dog.
     
    Mod-Mania, Dec 1, 2016
    Mod-Mania, Dec 1, 2016
    #76
  2. wylan911

    wylan911 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So the judges, Max Kellerman and RJJ must need that too. lol

    If you'll go back through the posts you'll see I've address this. Yes Kovalev landed more, but Ward landed the Cleaner more effective shots, and controlled the distance the round was fought moreso than Kovalev. Those are 2 major components to the round scoring system of boxing. You can choose to say you believe Kovalev won it, no problem with that at all. But my point for Ward winning that round holds just as much weight (if not more) than yours, and I'm not alone in my thinking. Considering it directly coincides w/ the 10point must scoring system. ;)
     
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    #77
  3. wylan911

    wylan911 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm gonna throw this out for those questioning me.

    The Four Components of Scoring
    Scoring in professional boxing is rather subjective in nature. Controversy seems to arise after every close bout, and official scorers are often scorned by viewers that deemed the fight far from close.
    Three ringside judges score bouts based on four factors:
    Clean punching: “Clean” punches are punches that land on the face/side of the head and the front/side of the torso.
    Effective aggressiveness: A boxer demonstrates this trait when he consistently and successfully moves forward in a controlled manner.
    Ring generalship: The judges favor the fighter who controls the pace and style of the bout.
    Defense: Boxers that skillfully incorporate defensive maneuvers receive credit in this area.

    Read more at: http://boxing.isport.com/boxing-guides/how-the-pro-boxing-scoring-system-works
     
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    #78
  4. Flamazide

    Flamazide Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    You can't cite employees of a network for evidence towards your claim, and RJJ already said that he felt Kov won. People think the judges were corrupt and their scoring points towards that so they are poor evidence towards your claim. Max as far as I know, never clearly stated that he felt Ward won but even if he did he doesn't exactly have the best track record for this.

    How can you say Ward landed the more effective shots when he was rocked several times in the fight and never seriously hurt Kov once? Also Kov controlled the fight more than Ward. The most controlling thing Ward did was initiate a clinch because he was getting banged up.
     
    Flamazide, Dec 1, 2016
    Flamazide, Dec 1, 2016
    #79
  5. pincai

    pincai The Indonesian Thin Man Full Member

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    You can certainly type and have a good knowledge and hold yourself nicely in a debate. But sir, take your sunglasses you get from Oakland convenience store off and look in the mirror and said I am not bias 10x
     
    pincai, Dec 1, 2016
    pincai, Dec 1, 2016
    #80
  6. wylan911

    wylan911 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Max Kellerman stated he felt Kovalev won, but it was such a close fight that he has no dispute whatsoever w/ the Ward win.

    That's the point I'm trying to get across. I have no issue w/ you scoring the fight for Kovalev. 1 round difference, and there were at least 2, rounds 1 and 12 that were nearly impossible to score. Round 10 you can argue the point that Kovalev landed more, I don't agree, but you can argue that. The main thing is, this fight was in no way shape or form a robbery. Ward absolutely controlled the 2nd hald of the fight. Kovalev absolutely came out the gates running. Neither fighter seem to be too tremendously hurt. So let's see what the rematch has to offer.
     
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    #81
  7. wylan911

    wylan911 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I'm not if you think so. Eh.. I can say the same about you for saying Kovalev won. It has been pointed out many times by me why I see it the way I do. Absolutely none of you, besides Ringside, who seems to know what he's talking about has given any kind of explanation of how you have it scored, why you believed Kovalev won. Nothing. Oh, because Kovalev beat him up. Well ask Kovalev how his ribs feel, lol. Ward got knocked down..... It was a flash knockdown at best. Perfectly timed right hand, but Ward wasn't on shaky legs. So tell me.... Why?
     
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    #82
  8. pincai

    pincai The Indonesian Thin Man Full Member

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    I couldn't be bother to type. Is that a good enough explanation lol
     
    pincai, Dec 1, 2016
    pincai, Dec 1, 2016
    #83
  9. Flamazide

    Flamazide Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Okay? He's still an HBO employee so in a high profile match like this you can't hold what he has to say in high regard. There are tons of people that have it 116-111 Kov that aren't biased at all, no one seriously has a card like that for Ward.

    This isn't amateur boxing where you solely go by who landed more. This is essentially the hurt business. Go by who was hurt more, that is what effective punching actually is. It wouldn't matter if Ward outlanded Kov in round 10 (he didn't), he never hurt him in that round while he was hurt multiple times. Same thing for round 1, Kovalev had him hurt in that round while he didn't take any serious damage himself. And what do you mean neither fighter seemed tremendously hurt? What fight were you watching? Ward was hurt several times just by Kovalev's jab alone. The only reason he didn't get knocked down again is because he clinched several times limited the actual boxing that could get done. Whenever he tried to box with Kovalev he spent the round getting his head knocked back and having his legs wobble from the punches he took.
     
    Flamazide, Dec 1, 2016
    Flamazide, Dec 1, 2016
    #84
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  10. LondonRingRules

    LondonRingRules Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    But the fact is the only reason the rematch is happening is because the decision quite clearly went to the wrong guy. Had kovalev been given the decision I doubt there would be as much demand for the rematch. Even ward said people will feel kovalev has been robbed, how many fighters would say that if they truly believed they had won.
     
    LondonRingRules, Dec 1, 2016
    LondonRingRules, Dec 1, 2016
    #85
    NewBoxingOrder, pincai and Flamazide like this.
  11. wylan911

    wylan911 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Well, if you looked, I posted the rules of scoring, and I know very much how they work, I know that absolutely you cannot just look at who landed and say, well he won that round, you have to look at the clean effective punching, and no, that does not just mean who was hurt, (and for the record neither fighter was seriously hurt at any point in that fight, w/ the exception of Kovalev's ribs), you don't just stop w/ the clean punches though, you also have to look at where the fight is taking place, ie: does Kovalev have Ward pinned on the ropes at the end of his punches, is Ward living on the inside where Kovalev doesn't want the fight, is it at, mid range. then you look at the defense is either fighter making the other miss, is one fighter bringing the fight coming forward, AND cutting the ring properly, and not just following them around. With all those taken into account I saw enough to say given the body of work from rounds 7 up til now, this appears to be more of Ward is trying to do, than Kovalev. Hence rd 10 Ward.
     
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    #86
  12. wylan911

    wylan911 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    That's because you can't
     
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    #87
  13. wylan911

    wylan911 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No, the rematch is happening because Kovalev had a contractually signed rematch clause. If Kova got KTFOa dn wasn't scared, the rematch would still be happeneing
     
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    #88
  14. wylan911

    wylan911 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I was watching the same fight you were watching, the fight were neither fighter appeared seriously hurt at any point in the fight.
     
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    wylan911, Dec 1, 2016
    #89
  15. Flamazide

    Flamazide Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    If you go by how to score a fight, then Kovalev won. It doesn't just mean who was hurt, but it is the most telling aspect of it. You generally only need to take the rest into consideration when the "hurt" aspect is about equal. It doesn't apply in this fight making it very easy to score.

    Ward was obviously hurt in the fight. Why do you think he clinched so much, retreated, had buckling knees, and had a damaged face? Kovalev even did the better body work in the fight. A lot of Ward's punches are actually illegal blows. Punches to the hip/groin and to the back. In one of the later rounds Ward clinched Kov but didn't tie his arms up and Kovalev ripped him to the body, Ward stopped holding and chose to ran away. Tell me, when did that happen to Kovalev? Because in almost every round I can show you moments where Kovalev hurt Ward like that- it wasn't an isolated incident.

    Kovalev isn't a guy that fights by cutting the ring off and trapping you against the ropes. He prefers it at the center of the ring and keeping you at the end of his jab. He isn't Golovkin.

    Round 10 Ward is the most hilarious thing you could have said. The highlight of that round is Ward trying to showboat and getting popped in the face with a solid shot. That round had a lot of moments like that where Ward took a damaging blow.
     
    Flamazide, Dec 1, 2016
    Flamazide, Dec 1, 2016
    #90
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